Author Topic: custom barrels (Read 2272 times)

poomwah · « **on:** May 21, 2007, 09:12:51 AM »

I know about the barrels available from H&R/NEF but they dont' have what I want. Does anyone know of any custom barrel makers that make h&R barrels? I want a super long 22 lr barrel. Want to make a "baby" buffalo :]

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** May 21, 2007, 09:27:04 AM »

No one makes custom barrels, there used to be one called Marts Custom, but they're no longer in business. Your choices are to have a barrel stubbed where a donor H&R barrel chamber end with the underlug is internally threaded for fitting of a threaded custom barrel blank. The only other option is to have an underlug welded to a custom barrel blank as I'm having done on a Shilen 6.5 blank, but it will be a while before it's finished.

Tim

poomwah · « **Reply #2 on:** May 21, 2007, 11:26:36 AM »

Tim,
how much is that costing you to have done?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** May 21, 2007, 11:36:44 AM »

Dunno for sure yet, it's the first one he's done, but I expect it to be between $200 and $300 when it's all said and done. He has to turn the barrel down at the breech from 1.250" to 1.1", shorten the 28" barrel to ~27½", including the crown work, weld the underlug on, probably dovetail the forend stud on,then chamber and blue the barrel, plus drill and tap it for a scope base.

He's done several barrels for me and others here, but they were just rechambers and/or rebores, mine were 338-06-A-Square from a 25-06 Ultra, 405 Winchester from a 38-55 Target, 35 Remington from 357 Max, and a 280 Improved from 280.

Tim

GregP42 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 21, 2007, 02:31:36 PM »

Tim,

Is Wayne doing it? I really want to know how this turns out as I really want a 6.5mm/284 myself and don't want to re barrel one of my Mausers right now.

Greg

quickdtoo · « **Reply #5 on:** May 21, 2007, 02:37:54 PM »

Yes, it's a back burner project as he calls it, will do it as time allows. I was gonna do the 6.5-284, but it's not exactly Handi friendly, didn't want to get into the same problem as I had with the .300WSM. The case head of the 6.5-284 is pretty good size at .500", so I elected to go with the .260 Rem and then switched to the 6.5x55 which has a bit more usable case volume than the 260, but still isn't too big.

Tim

poomwah · « **Reply #6 on:** May 21, 2007, 03:10:19 PM »

I just want a 22 with a ridiculously long barrel, hehe

Brett · « **Reply #7 on:** May 21, 2007, 03:51:36 PM »

You are aware of the fact that the optimal length barrel for the 22lr is around 18"? In barrels longer than that the powder is spent before the bullet leaves the barrel and you begin to loose velocity. A viable option is an over bored, non rifled barrel extension like those used on some small bore competition rifles to increase the distance between the front & rear sites.

poomwah · « **Reply #8 on:** May 21, 2007, 04:14:20 PM »

Brett,
thank you VERY much, I did not know that. You just saved me a lot of aggravation and a lot of money.

poomwah · « **Reply #9 on:** May 22, 2007, 03:15:55 PM »

Quote from: Brett on May 21, 2007, 03:51:36 PM

You are aware of the fact that the optimal length barrel for the 22lr is around 18"? In barrels longer than that the powder is spent before the bullet leaves the barrel and you begin to loose velocity. A viable option is an over bored, non rifled barrel extension like those used on some small bore competition rifles to increase the distance between the front & rear sites.

out of curiosity, if 18 inches is optimal, why do some manufacturers use longer barrels , the 21 inch on the marlin bolt action for instance

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** May 22, 2007, 04:36:20 PM »

Here are some threads from RFC on optimum barrel length. I'd have to say it probably depends on the ammo you shoot, with the myriad ammo available in 22Lr, there's probably no one length that works best for all loads.

Tim

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144022&highlight=optimum+barrel+length

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180284&highlight=optimum+barrel+length

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173544&highlight=optimum+barrel+length

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166025&highlight=optimum+barrel+length

Brett · « **Reply #11 on:** May 22, 2007, 05:17:15 PM »

Quote from: poomwah on May 22, 2007, 03:15:55 PM

Quote from: Brett on May 21, 2007, 03:51:36 PM
You are aware of the fact that the optimal length barrel for the 22lr is around 18"? In barrels longer than that the powder is spent before the bullet leaves the barrel and you begin to loose velocity. A viable option is an over bored, non rifled barrel extension like those used on some small bore competition rifles to increase the distance between the front & rear sites.
out of curiosity, if 18 inches is optimal, why do some manufacturers use longer barrels , the 21 inch on the marlin bolt action for instance

Could be for several reasons; aesthetics, longer sight radius, better balance.

poomwah · « **Reply #12 on:** May 22, 2007, 06:09:38 PM »

I'm not arguing by any means, I believe you. It explains why so many people have their barrels cut down. Seems like they'd just make them that way to begin with and save us some trouble

Brett · « **Reply #13 on:** May 23, 2007, 01:10:47 AM »

The difference in velocities over a range of barrel lengths from around 16" to 21" is only about + or - 5% so most people won't even notice and accuracy may actually increase with longer barrels especially with open sights do to the longer sight radius.

I'm not suggesting that you kill the .22lr Mini Buff' project just keep the optimum barrel length in mind when designing the barrel. A long over bored barrel with a 16" or 18" rifled barrel sleeve is quite feasible. I think I would use an H&R/NEF Sportster for the project however so that you don't have to contend with the offset bore.

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #14 on:** May 23, 2007, 06:06:43 AM »

When you talk about this over bore extension does that not effect the bullet coming out of the extension? Like muzzle blast changing the flight path while bullet is in the extension please treat me as ballistics ignorant cause I am. Reason I ask is because I welded a 1" extension on my 15" 223 bbl from encore and had recrowned but keep getting this feeling that it effects accuracy. Kurt

GregP42 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 23, 2007, 06:07:19 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on May 21, 2007, 02:37:54 PM

Yes, it's a back burner project as he calls it, will do it as time allows. I was gonna do the 6.5-284, but it's not exactly Handi friendly, didn't want to get into the same problem as I had with the .300WSM. The case head of the 6.5-284 is pretty good size at .500", so I elected to go with the .260 Rem and then switched to the 6.5x55 which has a bit more usable case volume than the 260, but still isn't too big.

Tim

Tim,

Yea, the case is .500, but it is a rebated rim type and the face of it is still .473 same as the .308,30-06,.243 family of cases. The 6.5x55 is a nice round too, but you can never open it up to anything else except the 6.5mmx284 because the case at the head is .007 larger than any member of the 06 family type of cartridge. Still, let me know how this one turns out, I still haven't fitted my .220 Swift barrel to a frame yet, every one I have tried is loose and I am not sure I want to shim it, I would rather have to open it up.

Greg

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** May 23, 2007, 06:33:48 AM »

Quote from: GregP42 on May 23, 2007, 06:07:19 AM

Tim,

Yea, the case is .500, but it is a rebated rim type and the face of it is still .473 same as the .308,30-06,.243 family of cases. The 6.5x55 is a nice round too, but you can never open it up to anything else except the 6.5mmx284 because the case at the head is .007 larger than any member of the 06 family type of cartridge. Still, let me know how this one turns out, I still haven't fitted my .220 Swift barrel to a frame yet, every one I have tried is loose and I am not sure I want to shim it, I would rather have to open it up.

Greg

Greg,

Wayne didn't think the 6.5-284 would be very friendly in an H&R, case head thrust or bolt thrust is dependent on the internal surface area of the case head, not the rim size which isn't part of the equation.

Tim

Quote

Bolt thrust is fairly simple to calculate and depends on the inside diameter of the cartridge case being fired and the chamber pressure.

http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/custom_actions/bolt_lug_strength.htm

poomwah · « **Reply #17 on:** May 23, 2007, 11:26:00 AM »

Quote from: peanut on May 23, 2007, 06:06:43 AM

When you talk about this over bore extension does that not effect the bullet coming out of the extension? Like muzzle blast changing the flight path while bullet is in the extension please treat me as ballistics ignorant cause I am. Reason I ask is because I welded a 1" extension on my 15" 223 bbl from encore and had recrowned but keep getting this feeling that it effects accuracy. Kurt

thats what I would think too :[

Brett · « **Reply #18 on:** May 23, 2007, 12:48:32 PM »

Evidently not because they are widely used on small bore target rifles that are known for shooting one hole groups. Just for kicks I think I will Google "small bore target rifles" to see what I can find.

poomwah · « **Reply #19 on:** May 23, 2007, 01:11:16 PM »

Quote from: Brett on May 23, 2007, 12:48:32 PM

Evidently not because they are widely used on small bore target rifles that are known for shooting one hole groups. Just for kicks I think I will Google "small bore target rifles" to see what I can find.

thanks brett :]

GregP42 · « **Reply #20 on:** May 23, 2007, 02:04:00 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on May 23, 2007, 06:33:48 AM

Greg,

Wayne didn't think the 6.5-284 would be very friendly in an H&R, case head thrust or bolt thrust is dependent on the internal surface area of the case head, not the rim size which isn't part of the equation.

Tim

Quote
Bolt thrust is fairly simple to calculate and depends on the inside diameter of the cartridge case being fired and the chamber pressure.

http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/custom_actions/bolt_lug_strength.htm

Tim,

Cool, I talked to him about a 6mmx284 and he thought it would be ok in the H&R, it might just be that the 6mm does not have the thrust that the 6.5 has.

Greg

quickdtoo · « **Reply #21 on:** May 23, 2007, 02:11:25 PM »

I dunno, they're probably pretty close to the same as they have the same case head, he thought the 260 Rem or 6.5x55 were better choices and I think so too. I don't think you'll be able to push the 6.5-284 to its potential just as I couldn't utilize the 300WSM. My 280 Improved with max loads of IMR7828 causes frame flex and the case gets jamnmed back into the chamber leaving a gap tween barrel and frame after the shot, that in turn causes the barrel release to be real hard to push, same as it was with the 300WSM. $:-\$

Tim

poomwah · « **Reply #22 on:** May 23, 2007, 02:19:15 PM »

so conceivably I could just put a sleeve over the outside of the barrel to make it look longer?

Graybeard · « **Reply #23 on:** May 23, 2007, 04:37:02 PM »

6.5-06 has same case capacity as the 6.5-284 and same case head as the .260 Remington and 6.5x55. Performance is equal as well. Since you're not limited on case length with the Handi it would do just as well as the 6.5-284 but with the smaller case diameter.

Brett · « **Reply #24 on:** May 24, 2007, 01:06:09 AM »

Quote from: poomwah on May 23, 2007, 02:19:15 PM

so conceivably I could just put a sleeve over the outside of the barrel to make it look longer?

Conceivably yes.

Did a quick Google and found many references to sight radius extension tubes. Several target rifle makers use them and many after market dealers and gunsmiths offer them. I found no information pertaining to their effect on ballistics or accuracy other than the fact that they put the front sight out there closer to the target making focusing on them easier hence improving sighting ability. Most appear to be screwed on to the end of a threaded barrel or attached to the end of the barrel via set screws.

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #25 on:** May 24, 2007, 04:27:02 AM »

The only reason I welded mine on is per fed law so I could shoot it with butt stock mounted. Maybe I am wrong on thinking it effects bullet. I do have it shooting much better after playing with several different loads. Kurt

poomwah · « **Reply #26 on:** May 24, 2007, 08:14:22 AM »

Quote from: Brett on May 24, 2007, 01:06:09 AM

Quote from: poomwah on May 23, 2007, 02:19:15 PM
so conceivably I could just put a sleeve over the outside of the barrel to make it look longer?

Conceivably yes.

Did a quick Google and found many references to sight radius extension tubes. Several target rifle makers use them and many after market dealers and gunsmiths offer them. I found no information pertaining to their effect on ballistics or accuracy other than the fact that they put the front sight out there closer to the target making focusing on them easier hence improving sighting ability. Most appear to be screwed on to the end of a threaded barrel or attached to the end of the barrel via set screws.

that sounds like a plan. I'd need something that covered the whole barrel. a visible seam wouldnt look good for what I'm doing. I did have a crazy idea last night of getting a 32 caliber octagon black powder barrel blank and sleeving it with a 22 barrel liner, then soldering a barrel lug on it.

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #27 on:** May 24, 2007, 12:04:32 PM »

If nothing else that will get ya in the right weight range of a buf gun

Kurt

Mitch in MI · « **Reply #28 on:** June 12, 2007, 03:48:20 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on May 21, 2007, 11:36:44 AM

mine were 338-06-A-Square from a 25-06 Ultra, 405 Winchester from a 38-55 Target, 35 Remington from 357 Max, and a 280 Improved from 280.

280 AI from a 280?
How'd that work? Did he set the barrel back?
Remember how everybody was against me trying that?
I've still got this new reamer, gage, and my 280 barrels, and now I have time to tinker.
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,32431.0.html

quickdtoo · « **Reply #29 on:** June 12, 2007, 05:29:15 AM »

It's not a 280 Ackley, the barrel can't be set back, it's technically a 280 Improved-Improved, factory ammo can't be fired in it, the case has considerable more volume compared to a standard 280 and .9gr water more than a Nosler Custom 280 Ackley case.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,97534.msg1098247046.html#msg1098247046