Author Topic: 44 mag loads for whitetail: JSP?? (Read 3219 times)

ccoker · « **on:** June 14, 2007, 06:09:33 PM »

I recently got a blackhawk hunter bisley in 44mag to replace my smith 657 41 mag, primarily because of easy access to ammo.

magtech makes a 240g JSP that is easy to obtain, groups well and is priced right around here..
Winchester whitebox does the same basic load and is available anywhere..

if the shots are within 50 yards... they should do the trick I would imagine...
perhaps the occasional 150lb hog..

anyone not have the JSPs work on Texas whitetail in this range?

Georgia Arms does a gold dot 240 for about the same price ($22/50) though it requires ordering in
I just want to have ammo that is easy to get and affordable
don't have the time to reload
I shoot my 1911 a lot so, I am in practice..

thanks

MS Hitman · « **Reply #1 on:** June 15, 2007, 01:06:14 AM »

The jsp is going to act much like a cast bullet. These do a fine job on whitetail based on my experience. You should not have any problems with deer or hogs with this bullet.

HL · « **Reply #2 on:** June 15, 2007, 01:37:41 AM »

That just about says it.

ken2222 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 15, 2007, 12:54:39 PM »

if I read this post correctly...I should limit my effective range on Whitetails(Michigan) to 50 yrds with 240gr JSPs....75 yrds just WON'T work?

Thanks,

Ken

Ken ONeill · « **Reply #4 on:** June 15, 2007, 02:17:09 PM »

Of course 75 yards will work with proper shot placement, with either 240 JSP's or JHP's.

ken2222 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 15, 2007, 02:25:20 PM »

I've been blowing up apples at 100 yrds with my 629 so I believe shot placement won't be a problem....what weight would be better to say...100yrds? This will be my first season with 44...I've killed a few with 357 and a couple with 40 one with 45 but all at closer ranges....40yrds max

Dave in WV · « **Reply #6 on:** June 15, 2007, 03:19:21 PM »

A JSP will work just as well as a cast SWC IF it doesn't expand. The JSP may expand fine. I like a shoulder shot with my handguns. It seems to work better for me. I load 210gr Rem HPs with a max load equivilant of Unique.

Ken ONeill · « **Reply #7 on:** June 16, 2007, 12:34:34 AM »

Most any bullet weight from 180 to 320 will work on whitetails. I prefer 240 Sierra JHP's. Use what you're blowing up apples with.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #8 on:** June 16, 2007, 01:07:34 AM »

a jacketed soft point is find for deer sized game out to what ever range you can hit the vitals a 100 percent of the time. It however isnt going to do anything a hard cast will. For one a hardcast lfn or swc will usually penetrate better. The design of a soft point is alot closer to a round flat cast. Its short and stubby for its weight and lacks the sectional density of a good kieth or lfn and will not penetrate as well or probably hold its velocity as well at long range. It also will suffer in pentration because it wont expand violently as a jacketed rifle bullet will it will somewhat deform just about every time and if you want to mess up a bullets abilty to penetrated deap or straight just deform it and any way. Even a small amount will make a bullet dive. Now before eveyone jumps on my you didnt see anywhere in the post that i said they wouldnt kill a little whitetail deer because that would be a rediculous statement to make. In my opinion there vastly superior to a jhp bullet but they still come up short in comparison to a good cast bullet.

MS Hitman · « **Reply #9 on:** June 16, 2007, 01:42:51 AM »

Well Lloyd,

You know it is hard to make a blanket statement about most anything. Just about the time you close your mouth, someone's got the exception to the rule.

My point was the jsp will act more like a cast bullet than a jhp. But yes, they are not a substitute for a good cast bullet when penetration is desired. As far as 50 yards, everyone has to make their own limitations for themselves. If one can shoot apples at 100 yards, you are definitely shooting "minute-of deer". Better to be realistic and keep the shots closer until confidence and ability increase.

ken2222 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 16, 2007, 02:11:37 AM »

Since I'm not loading yet, I'll stick with the 240 JSPs for this season....the majority of my shots will be inside of 65 yrds so I should be fine then. I'm a neck shooter with shotgun, Muzzy and Rifle ....will this be a problem? Seems there will be plenty of energy at these distances. Now, when I start loading, what cast pill does it best in the 100yrd and in category? I'll start stocking up....

Thanks guys

Ken

crabo · « **Reply #11 on:** June 16, 2007, 04:11:04 AM »

Ken, I have jut started my quest for the best "cast pill" for my revolvers. I was looking for one "magic" bullet that would do it all for hunting, silhouette, and all around shooting. Lloyd said there was no magic bullet for every gun and I would just have to shoot the crap out of it to find out what it shoots best.

He was right. I have shot 5 different cast bullets and ordered several more. I have used 6 different powders. I did not want to do this. I was hoping someone would give me a recipe that would do it all. You could get some basic recommendations so that you can limit primer, powder and bullets purchases initially.

The whole process was an eye opener. I started out by opening up my cylinders to .358. (I started this with my .357) Then I firelapped the barrel. Then I started testing bullets and powders.

I started all my testing at 50 yards off a bench. It was an eye opener. Some of the bullets that I had used for years, commercial bevel based, were horrible past 25 yards. The LBT design is running the best so far. I have started my "book". I am using copier paper with targadots and writing the loads so I can review them later. Once I get some winners at 50 yards, I will move to 100 yards. I had one bullet that shot a one inch group with one powder, and then with a different powder and charge weight, was so big I didn't want to measure it.

I have some friends that reload commercially and I always followed their recommendations and just shot the loads they used. I now know that to find the best load for my gun is going to require some work. However the satisfaction of having confidence in my dot, and having the ability to make a good shot, is worth all the work.

I would recommend that you start reading the cast bullet, the Veral Smith and the reloading forums here on Graybeard and start educating yourself on cast bullets. You'll start to see some principles emerging from the people who have a lot of history and success with cast bullets.

Thanks,

Crabo

ms · « **Reply #12 on:** June 16, 2007, 08:30:53 AM »

not the neck with no gun if you have other choices.

ken2222 · « **Reply #13 on:** June 16, 2007, 03:08:18 PM »

I have yet to find a neck shot that didn't IMMEDIATELY ANCHOR a whitetail....is there something I should know that I don't?

On the cast stuff....guess I'll just start experimenting til I get the right stuff....til then its Magtech 240gr SJSPs.....

Thanks Guys...

Ken

Ak.Hiker · « **Reply #14 on:** June 16, 2007, 05:36:15 PM »

Nothing wrong with a good 240 JSP in the 44 magnum. Years ago it was about the only load I ever saw on the gun shop shelves and lots of critters even moose have been taken with it. Robert Petersen took a polar bear with the Norma 240 steel jacked bullet. Now days we do have some very good choices in the 44 magnum but for deer, hogs and black bear I think the 240 JSP would be a very good choice.

Old Griz · « **Reply #15 on:** June 16, 2007, 08:59:12 PM »

I've got a 5.5" Vaquero Bisley that loves the Magtech .44 JSPs. It's a one small hole shooter with those, and I wouldn't hesitate to hunt with it. However, I've got a couple of 7.5" Bisleys that usually get first dibs when huntin' season rolls around. They tend to group the best with 300-gr. Federal CastCores. Funny how they all usually seem to like something different.

ms · « **Reply #16 on:** June 17, 2007, 02:04:17 AM »

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Re: 44 mag loads for whitetail: JSP??
« Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 08:08:18 PM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have yet to find a neck shot that didn't IMMEDIATELY ANCHOR a whitetail....is there something I should know that I don't?
The anchor spot in the neck is small it could go wrong one day for you just something to thing about.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #17 on:** June 17, 2007, 02:16:57 AM »

Never have liked neck shots and have seen to many deer get away from them. Most deer that are not found after a neck shot will eventually die, but they suffer in the process. I will not take a neck shot and sure don't recommend it.

ms · « **Reply #18 on:** June 18, 2007, 02:20:04 AM »

;DIllustration courtesy of Hornady Mfg. Co.

The .44 Remington Magnum was introduced in 1956. For years Elmer Keith and others had been experimenting with heavy loads in the .44 Special case, and these experiments had gotten a lot of exposure in the firearms press. Finally Remington teamed with Smith & Wesson to bring out a lengthened and strengthened .44 Special case (much as the .357 Mag. is a lengthened and strengthened .38 Spec. case) and a revolver to shoot the new cartridge.

Handgun ballistics tables show bullet weights of 180, 210, 240, 275, and 300 grains for the .44 Magnum. The most popular and generally the most useful remains the 240 grain jacketed bullet at about 1180 fps with 741 ft. lbs. of muzzle energy from a 4" revolver barrel. The figures from a rifle barrel are 1760 fps and 1650 ft. lbs. The JHP bullet is preferred for handgun hunting use, while the tougher JSP bullet is the best choice for the higher velocities achieved by rifle barrels.

For the handloader there is a good selection of .429" bullets, the bullet diameter actually used in the .44 Magnum cartridge. Common jacketed bullet weights include 180, 200, 210, 225, 240, 250, 265, 275, and 300 grains.

For reduced recoil and flat trajectory in a revolver, I have found the 200 grain bullet a good choice, and for all-around use it is hard to beat the 240 grain bullet in revolver or rifle. Those who insist on using their .44's on heavy game are partial to the 265-300 grain bullets. Lead bullets should be kept well below 1000 fps to minimize barrel leading. Actually, in any magnum handgun caliber, it is best to forgo lead bullets.

For practice shooting and varmint hunting I load a 200 grain Speer JHP bullet in front of 11.0 grains of HS6 powder for a MV of about 1000 fps. This load uses Winchester WLP primers and is, in effect, a ".44 Special +P" load in Magnum brass. Recoil is moderate and the trajectory is flat enough for most purposes.

According to the Handgun section of the Hodgdon Data Manual, 26th Edition 13.0 grains of HS6 powder will give a 200 grain JHP bullet a MV of 1197 fps, and 15.5 grains of HS6 will give a MV of 1516 fps.

23.0 grains of H110 powder can drive a 240 grain jacketed bullet at a MV of 1411 fps, and a maximum load of 24.0 grains of H110 can drive the same bullet at a MV of 1548 fps. These figures were achieved in a 7" pressure test barrel. The MAP of the latter load is 39,300 cup. Large pistol magnum primers were used for these loads.

Note: A full length article about the .44 Rem. Mag. can be

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #19 on:** June 18, 2007, 09:35:08 AM »

have to chuckle at the recomendation not to shoot cast over 1000 fps. Maybe with hornadys junk cast bullets but i routinely shoot cast at 1400 fps and faster out of handguns and up to 2800 fps out of rifles with absolutely no leading. Trick is to know what your doing. I dont bad mount jacketed bullets in the 45 as long as you stick to a good soft point of at least 240 grain. I personaly witnessed to many bullet failures wiht the 180s and 200s on game. Ive also compared just to many wound channels in game shot with both cast and jsp and jhps and know for a fact that a cast bullet is capable of creating just as large of a wound channel and will give much better penetration and about allways give a better blood trail with a marginal hit.

Chris Potts · « **Reply #20 on:** June 18, 2007, 11:36:30 AM »

I have not shoot lead as fast as lloyd has, but I have pushed gascheck lead bullets to 2100 fps without leading problems in a rifle. I think that I could pushed them faster but have no need to. With good lead bullets leading is not nearly as much of a problem as some people would lead you to believe. I would definitely consider at least trying some good lead bullets. I would also recommend using heavy for caliber bullets

Chris

kennisondan · « **Reply #21 on:** June 18, 2007, 06:15:07 PM »

Neck Shots : it is just really easy for a neck shot to be slightly off and not result in an instant anchoring reaction, like head shots.. the target is mobile and small, and the day will likely come when a less than perfect shot makes you wish you had chosen a larger target. If you break the shoulders, tear open the heart or great vessells; the deer will anchor just fine...have seen neck shots that did not work, head snots that took off a jaw and nose... ugly and wasteful...
Have shot them there, I admit but it is not the best practice..and it only takes once to really bum you out, or aggravate your host...I do not like bad tracking jobs nor lost deer, ever.
JMHO
dk

ccoker · « **Reply #22 on:** June 19, 2007, 06:23:13 AM »

thanks for the feedback
If I am doing a dedicated hog hunt I would use hardcast, as most of my hunting is whitetail with the occasional chance at a hog (smaller 150 max "meat" hogs) I will stick with the 240JSPs