License increase

[manofthe45]

By now I think we all know that the GC is hurting for money.  My ? would you support a license increase to the general license to help put the GC back in the black.

Personally I would support a increase to the general license, but sorry Dave I also believe that non-residents need to be picking up a lot more of the increase than the residents do.

[davem270win]

As the number of hunters in PA keeps dropping, the game commission will have no choice but to raise license fees. As I understand it, the trend around the country is a decrease in actual hunter numbers, but an increase in the amount of dollars hunters are spending on the sport. Most states are realizing hunters can pay more, so why not charge it?

[manofthe45]

As the number of hunters in PA keeps dropping, the game commission will have no choice but to raise license fees. As I understand it, the trend around the country is a decrease in actual hunter numbers, but an increase in the amount of dollars hunters are spending on the sport. Most states are realizing hunters can pay more, so why not charge it?

While I do agree with you I need to point out that the game commision has no control over the license prices it is controled by the pa legislaive branch

[300winny]

I voted yes but not because i would ultimatly agree with it but because im sure as hell not going to stop hunting just because the price of the license went up Like dave and Manofthe45 said, if the number of hunters in pa keeps dropping the legislation will have to do something to  even everything out

[Davemuzz]

I voted yes. But then, I can afford to pay it. I just bot my '07-08 license. My hunting license, Archery stamp, Muzzle loading stamp, and fur bearing license (I like to hunt fox....no trapping, can't physically do that) cost $68.  I don't think that's too bad.

I know that based upon the previous "propose" fee increases (that did not go into effect), it was going to go to something like $125. That was approximately a 100% increase. There are some guys I hunt with that will take that kind of hit hard.

MHO

Dave

[Graybeard]

It's REALLY none of my business but because I have a friend who lives in PA that I regularly correspond with I'm kinda aware of what goes on up there. I feel the PA game commission is the most money hungry outfit I've ever seen. They nickle and dime you guys to death for no good reason that I can see from way down here in Bama.

Your state is pretty similar to mine in size but you do have more hunters so that alone generates a lot more revenue even if price were the same. BUT you get one buck tag and then if lucky a doe tag to go with it and can apply for an additional "bonus doe tag" as my friend calls it. You have to buy your turkey tags and I think get only a couple per year.

Here in Bama we pay $19 for a hunting license that covers everything we have to hunt. Now if we want to hunt in the WMAs (which most folks do not do) you pay an additional $16 for that.

That $19 gets you one buck per day (they MAY change that this year) from the opening of archery season on Oct. 15 to the close of all seasons on the following Jan. 31. Gun season opens on the Saturday before Thanksgiving whatever date that falls on. With bow you can kill two deer one buck and one doe or two does all season long state wide. The gun doe season varies thru out the state but about 2/3 of the state gets doe season the entire gun season. Where I live it's until Jan. 7 most years. During doe season you get two does or one buck and one doe per day. No tags for turkeys and five per season are allowed.

We don't pay extra for a bow license or muzzle loader license or any of that other BS you guys are stuck with.

Why does your game and fish folks need so much more money to operate than the Bama game and fish folks? I have no clue since our states are similar in size and especially in light of the fact you have perhaps twice as many folks paying to hunt as here and are allowed but a tiny fraction of the hunting for the money paid.

But as I said it's NOT my business and whatever makes you guys happy is fine with me. Just seems strange to an outsider looking in.

[Davemuzz]

Bill,

Yeah, I guess at $19 for the season....plus being able to take a buck each day, you would look at the Pa system and ask why would anyone want to say "hey, what a great place to hunt"!

I don't know how many licensed hunter's Bama has, but I believe here in Pa. it's like 1 million. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong and I can't even quote a source on that one.....I think I'm just going off of memory there...and now a day, that is not a good thing to do.

So, if my number is right, if we let Bama rules prevail, we could wipe out the deer heard pretty quickly (like in a season) here. In fact, with the current doe allocations, we are doing a pretty good job of cutting into it now.

So, where does the money go? Well, I suppose if I dug into it deep I could get a good sense of that. But now a day, I don't have the time nor energy for that. My gut tells me it's probably a sad tail like many of the other Pa. political occurrencess. And people are all too busy to scream "stop" the maddness. So, it just continues.

Sad but true.

Dave

[Graybeard]

From what I've read PA generally sells licenses to about one million per season but I think the trend is down and that you might now have dropped a wee bit under that figure. On average we sell about half a million per year I think.

In spite of the generous bag limits here our herd is on the increase NOT on the decrease even tho the state things most areas do need to decrease the herd size. If you doubled your number of hunters and extended your season to the length of ours and the limit to match you'd not exterminate deer in PA. I admit you might severely reduce their numbers but you'd not eliminate them.

I wasn't so much comparing the seasons and limits however as the cost. I guess I can't see why it should cost PA so much more to run their game and fish department than it does Bama to run ours based on the similar physical size of the states. It would seem a similar number of personnel should be able to handle the job, perhaps a few more up your way to deal with more hunters but by and large the wardens need only deal with the law breakers not the lawful hunters regardless of their numbers.

As I said it was merely an observation by an outsider that it "seems to an outsider" that your G&F folks sure do like money. 

I think things here are gonna get much worse real soon. There has been a concerted effort for a number of years by folks who "think of themselves as trophy hunters" to get our buck quota severely reduced and to add point restrictions such as you have. I've heard rumors but haven't seen the official story of it yet that we'll be going to some kinda point system and a three buck per year limit this next season. I'm not certain it's fact yet but ther is a big push from a very few to make it happen. I think it will ruin what has been up until then the best system in the nation.

I guess for me it's pretty much immaterial really as my health is such I can no longer walk the hills to chase the deer nor can I climb up in a treestand anymore either. My hunting has pretty much ended here. The only time I've gone in the last three seasons was this past December when I went to White Oak Lodge. They drove me right to my stand and only put me at stands at ground level or with stairs not ladders as I tend to fall from ladders which kinda hurts the old body. Three seasons back was my last climb up a ladder to a stand and will be the last in my life time. As I was getting out for no apparent reason I just turned loose and was headed toward the ground to land head first from about 14' up when I managed to reach out and grap a pair of 2x12s that form the front of the stand. My fingers only barely got enough purchase to stop the backward movement that would no doubt have either ended my life or crippled me for life.

That was enough for me. I tend to fall way too often these days and get dizzy spells for no reason with no notice. Doctors have given up trying to find the reason. I'll just have to live with it and stay away from heights and ladders and such. My shortness of breath will not let me walk even 50 yards in the woods without a long session of huffing and puffing. Hills are totally out of the question and around here that's all there is are hills.

These days I mostly just look back fondly at the many years of hunting I've enjoyed and spend my time at the skeet range.

[buckbeast]

I believe the big decline in the PGC's finances were with the construction of the Taj' Mahal on Elmerton Ave in Harrisburg. Before that, they never really seemed to have a problem with cash.

I did vote yes, I would favor an increase, because I'm not sure what would happen to hunting without the PGC. As it stands the PGC is not sponsored by any taxpayer dollars. Their operating revenue is gained only through the sale of licenses, oil, gas, & timber (from the state game lands). Of these 4 items, only the price of licenses really has a chance to be increased and bring in more revenue. They are only allowed to sell so much oil, gas, and timber per year. But they are allowed to sell as many licenses as they can. And being the number of hunters is slowly declining, they need to ask more from those of us still buying, to get the same revenue they had before.

The other part of what I believe is if the PGC goes belly-up, it will have to be sponsored by tax dollars. If that happens I believe we could have more "tree-huggers" voicing their opinion on the "evils of hunting" and eventually they may win out. So, if a few extra dollars a year will allow me to have the privilege to hunt, I see no problem with it.

buck

[Davemuzz]

Bill,

I'm sorry to hear about your health. I do understand what it's like to have your physical abilities taken away from you. Mine are severely limited as I cannot hunt in the mountains any longer, nor fly fish or stream fish anymore. I can walk most of the area's here in SW Pa. that I want to as long as the tempature stays cool.

But, keep getting out when you can. It's not what you can't do, it's what you can do.

But yeah...the PA GC can spend the bucks. From what I've seen lately they can also act like a bunch of old ladies fussin and bickerin as well. 

It's a damn shame.

Dave

[davem270win]

I don't believe anyone mentioned this, but PA is about the only only state that has a separate Game Commission and Fish Commission. In most other states, Fish and game are controlled by One Bureaucracy, not two.

[Davemuzz]

They talked about merging the PAGC and the PAFC into one organization. This would be a bad idea, IMHO (and I think the Pa legislator's actually thought this way as well). You see, the PAGC own's the land (the public hunting grounds) that has been purchased with license fees from hunters. This land was bot specifically for the purpose of hunting and with funds derived from the sale of hunting license.

So, if you merge the two organizations, now you have a situation where this issue gets "blured". You see, the "tree huggers" took the PGC to court (if I remember correctly) to obtain the "rights" to ride their bikes on hunting properties. They said since it was "public" land they could ride their bikes and walk the trails and do "public stuff". But a judge ruled that the lands were bot with funds for a specific purpose....HUNTING....with dollars from the sale of hunting license. So, if biking people wanted there own land....go buy it.

So, my point is, if you merge the two, you may lose the specific purpose of what the license fees are suppose to be for. And PETA would be all over that.

Dave

[manofthe45]

Well said.  I am totally against any merger of the GC with any other department.  It ain't perfect but the PGC is better left alone.