Just a thought about the RB

[corbanzo]

I love my raging bull.  Love it, a 6.5" ss in .454 casull.  Did I mention I love it?

Many of us have asked the same question, when is Taurus going to come out with a .460mag in the RB? 

Then I thought about it.

The .454RB is a staple, probably their best seller out of the RB series, it is what I know many people have and love.  So if you introduce the .460 in the RB, you thus made the .454 obsolete, destroying its following.  Gun owners turned off by more power?  Not me, but for many it may seem like the case.  With the popularity of the RB in .454, and the current marketing strategy of Taurus (towards the newer autos like the 1911 and the 24/7oss) I don't think we are going to see a .460, at least not for a long time. 

You never know, I could be wrong.  They do try selling to every other niche market. 

[unspellable]

To chamber the 460 you would have to have a longer frame so it wouldn't be a Raging Bull, it would be a different model.  The real mystery is why Dan Wesson didn't go into production with a 460 since they originated the SuperMag concept.  They did make a couple as tool room models, one of the guys on the Dan Wesson section snagged one of them.

On the other hand, the 454 did seem to shove the 45 Colt Raging Bull into obscurity.

[corbanzo]

Yeah, though I don't really see the super mags as all that super.  The .44 mag will do everything the .445 supermag will do.  Even the dan wessons would need some redesign to take the .460.  Also DW doesn't come out with a whole lot of new guns like Taurus does.

[unspellable]

I will be obliged to defer.  There is a substantial difference in performance between the magnums and the corresponding Supermags.  A 445 will very easily push the same bullet 200 fps faster than a 44 mag.  What's more to the point is it will push a heavier bullet to a higher velocity.  The 357 SuperMag will not only out perform a 357 magnum, it also has a slight edge over the 357 Maximum.


To make it a 460 would only require a five hole cylinder.  The length is already there.  Remember, DW already cranked out two 460s.  The DW is the original home of the SuperMag concept.  The S&W 460 is nothing but a 45 SuperMag.  It even has a DW type barrel on it.  S&W was in cahoots with DW on the design.  Why they did not see fit to go all the way and make the barrel interchangable, I don't know. 

[corbanzo]

Oops, typo, I was still talking about the .454.  And I was trying to say, who needs the .445 over that, why don't you just make a .454 with interchangeable barrels? 

And calling the .460 mag a 45 supermag is like calling a nolan ryan a little league pitcher.  They are both pitchers... 

[unspellable]

The 460 derives directly from the SuperMag concept.  Same length case.  S&W went to Dan Wesson in developing it.  The SuperMag concept was to take the existing cartridges and lengthen their case to 1.610 inch.  The 460 is a 45 Colt case lengthened 1.610 inch.  Dan Wesson called it the 460 SuperMag.  S&W called it the 460 S&W for obvious marketing reasons.  So yo use I’m not comparing the 460 S&W to a 45 SuperMag, it IS a 45 SuperMag from the get go.

As for the 445 SuperMag compared to the 454 Casull, it gets a bit more complicated.  To start with, the 445 was intended for a very specific purpose, silhouette shooting.  This is rather specialized niche and the 455 will produce a flatter trajectory with less recoil than the 454 casull for the same delivered momentum at 200 meters.  In the terminal ballistics for this game, momentum counts, energy or caliber doesn’t.

That said, the 445 SuperMag is obviously a good hunting round.  It certainly outperforms the 44 Mag.  It’s difficult to compare to the 454 because you also have to drag in questions about what sort of firearm you are putting it in, what you are hunting in what kind of terrain, etc.  Not that there is a great difference between them, but sorting out what difference there is drags in such questions.  For starters, one might compare them in a single shot pistol since then it would be possible to compare them in otherwise identical arms.  If I compare the muzzle ballistics from a single shot the 445 SuperMag and the 454 Casull are a pretty close match.  It’s also interesting to note that this comparison reverses the old 44 Mag vs 45 Colt comparision.  It’s always been pointed out that the 45 colt will do what the 44 Mag will do with less pressure.  In the present case, the 445 SuperMag runs less pressure than the 454 Casull.

BTW: I have no particular bias here since I have both dogs in the fight.  I'm not planning to get rid of either.

On the other hand, you made the remark about why not just make the 454 with interchanagble barrels.  The Dan Wesson product line is somewhat limited at the moment but if they put out a 454 I would serioulsy consider buting one.  No body else has seen fit to play with the interchangable barrel concept.  (The S&W X frame barrel can be swapped out relatively easily if you have the special tool, but it does not allow for an adjustable cylinder gap like the DW.  And lately S&W has not been getting the highest marks for getting cylinder gaps just right.)