Author Topic: 10mm Bear Gun (Read 2549 times)

bayrunner · « **on:** April 17, 2003, 06:19:18 PM »

Hi Guys ____ What do you guys think about 10mm ( 180 hot load)for a self defence, blk.bear(200-300lb.) gun.I'm considering on getting one ,for a packing gun and would like some input from you guys. THANKS BAYRUNNER

PaulS · « **Reply #1 on:** April 17, 2003, 07:30:28 PM »

Bayrunner,
The 10 mm has about the same power as the .357 magnum. It would be marginal against a white-tail out to 50 or so yards but not very effective against a bear at twice the weight and tougher by at least that much. I believe that you would be better off with a heavier caliber. You certainly couldn't expect a one shot kill with the 10 mm and at close range and you might not have time for a second shot.

PaulS

BoatVet · « **Reply #2 on:** April 17, 2003, 07:32:02 PM »

I don't think I'd trust a 10mm against a black bear. You should probably be looking at a revolver in 41 or 44 magnum if thats the only size bears were you live. I live were there are big browns and black bears so I opted for the 454 casull. And a Shotgun with slugs when I'm really out in the woods. Taurus, Ruger, and Smith and Wesson all make some nice short barreled revolvers and the ported ones really keep the recoil down. Hope this helps some.

myronman3 · « **Reply #3 on:** April 18, 2003, 04:37:20 AM »

i respectively disagree. looking over ballistic tables and reloading manuals, i see that the 10mm is closer to 41 magnum power levels than the 357. and whatever you do, DO NOT let uncle ted let you say the 10mm isnt potent enough for whitetails or blackies. i distincly remember seeing him drop that cape buffalo with his 10mm glock. match your ammo to you intended quarry, you should be just fine. by the way, i do not advocate the hunting of cape buffalo with the 10mm, unless your last name is nugent and your first is ted. rock on. :music:

JOE MACK · « **Reply #4 on:** April 18, 2003, 06:37:34 AM »

While it wouldn't be my first choice, I'd use it if it was what I had. I'd use a heavier bullet for better penetration, though. See the 10mm column on Glocktalk.com where there are some diehard 10mm people. As J.D. Jones would say, "The 10mm isn't a .41Magnum by a longshot." My standard load for packing is a 250grWFNGC at 1350fps and that's not pushing it hard. I also use a 210grJHC at 1600+ fps in a Redhawk. You might get a S&W 610 and have it punched out to 10mmMagnum. Now that's a nice 10mm! RKBA!

Zachary · « **Reply #5 on:** April 18, 2003, 03:44:33 PM »

I wouldn't even use the word Bear and 10mm in the same sentence. If anything, you would probably just irritate it more.

I would only look at cartridges from .44 mag and up.

Zachary

Daveinthebush · « **Reply #6 on:** April 18, 2003, 06:58:05 PM »

Remember to file the front site off.

Tony · « **Reply #7 on:** April 19, 2003, 08:43:07 AM »

I do not see why the 10mm would not be a good choice for black bear. It is a known fact that black bears and even larger and more dangerous game have been taken with lessser cartridges than the 10mm. I suppose the people that use a bow to hunt bear must be out of their mind (I don't think so). Bayrunner should you choose the 10mm for black bears check out Cor-Bon ammunition, they make a 200 grain round nose penetrator load for the 10mm. I would also contact them to see if any of their staff has used this load for black bear and what kind of performance they got from that paticular load. I look at it this way, if you are are confident in yourself and the 10mm take it hunting and as my father used to tell me it is the first shot that always counts the most. :-)

bayrunner · « **Reply #8 on:** April 19, 2003, 08:59:02 AM »

Hi Guys___ Thanks for all the replies, its greatly appreciated, I think I'll just dig a little deeper and put things on hold for a while. THANKS BAYRUNNER

Henry Bowman · « **Reply #9 on:** April 19, 2003, 06:23:50 PM »

And LHAO!
What'd the good Colonel do w/o the internet?
Well, he killed every animal that walked the earth with the .357 Magnum!
And yes, the 10mm has more power than the much fabled .357 Remington Magnum.

Zachary · « **Reply #10 on:** April 23, 2003, 04:58:35 AM »

I have a .357 and I like it too!

Zachary

Zachary · « **Reply #11 on:** April 23, 2003, 05:02:27 AM »

And it shoots best with 158 grain bullets.

Zachary

Zachary · « **Reply #12 on:** April 23, 2003, 05:17:05 AM »

I would not, however, use bullets that are too soft. A .357 diameter bullet is big enough, although I think that the Hornady XTP would be a great bullet for deer.

Zachary

eric in or · « **Reply #13 on:** May 10, 2003, 06:11:41 PM »

While it's certainly not optimal, I did use it on a black bear several summers ago while scouting for elk. I stalked up to within 20 yards and put a 200gr XTP into the lungs quartering-away. That was a hot load from a S&W 1006. He went a looooong way down the veerrry steep hill, it was one of those dead bear tumbling sorta deals. Surely wish I'd shot him with my 338wm instead! Having shot both a deer and that bear with this load, I would consider the 10mm to be superior to the 357mag that it is so often compared to... probably somewhat behind the 41mag (which I haven't used). I have since sold the 10mm as I decided that autos just weren't practical for my purposes, I got tired of chasing brass and didn't find the faster rate of fire remotely useful in the field. Pretty neat gun though, and quite possibly the ulimate woods carry gun for kitties and 2-leggers.

grendel · « **Reply #14 on:** May 10, 2003, 08:33:46 PM »

For quite a few years my carry gun was also my woods walking gun. A .45 acp loaded, warm, with Verl's 225g LFN slug. I was not planning to hunt with it, it was only carried for Orks or varmints. Either in the night or those which might get ornery during daylight.

I talked a bit to Verl before buying the mold. He felt (as I recall, remember this was at least 7 or 8 years ago) that that bullet loaded warm (900+fps) would probably let air in on both sides of a normal sized black bear (broadside shot) or would probably break leg bones.

You have to make a couple of assumptions. One, you are alert enough (or lucky enough) to spot the trouble before it starts. Or two, the ork or varmint blows the first attack and gives you time to defend yourself. Having made those two assumptions and living and camping in California where the last Griz. bought it 70+ years ago, I figured I was well armed against Orks, dogs, Kitty's or black bear. Orks and dogs run in packs. Depending on which mag I was using I had either 8 or 9 rounds on tap without reloading. That's better then 6! Kitty's don't run in packs and don't have the reputation for being that hard to kill. Black bears don't run in packs either, but do have a reputation for being hard to kill. Now I know that nothing is certain except death and taxes but I felt pretty dam certain that if I let enough air in and blood out of a black bear with the hard cast LFN's it was going to get sick and die. Would it maul me first? Maybe, maybe not. Hell it might be mauling me before I even got a shot off. In any case I felt at ease packing the .45acp. A properly loaded 10mm has even more power and penetration. The only reason I did not carry one of them was I was too broke (or cheap, the matter is open to debate) to buy one. That and I already had dies, molds, bullets and over 1000rounds of brass for the .45acp.

Nowadays I may carry a RBH 5.5" in .45LC or a S&W Mountain Gun in .44Mag when I am in the woods. But to tell you the truth I don't feel any more or less secure when I carry them then I do when I pack the Government model.
--

Grendel

If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude
than the animating contest of freedom - go from us in peace. We ask not
your counsel or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you
were our countrymen!

Samuel Adams

Mikey · « **Reply #15 on:** May 19, 2003, 04:37:30 AM »

bayrunner: I am an old fan of the 10mm, going way back before the 10mm was even created. J.D. Jones is wrong, and the last time I called him on it he got huffy and told me I didn't know what I was talking about -until I told him which cartridge I had developed and what animals I have taken with it.

The 10mm cartridge equates to the lower end of the 41 magnum power spectrum but may have just as much impact effectiveness due to it's smaller diameter and same or similar bullet weights. I would expect a 180 grain 10mm bullet at 1200'/sec to penetrate more deeply than a 180 grain 41 magnum bullet at the same velocity, just due to the narrower diameter. You can load bullets in the 10mm to 200 grains. My preferences for cast bullets in my 10mm caliber was for the 170 grain Keith style semi-wadcutters that he developed for the 38-40. Cast hard these things will penetrate as far into blocks of cut pine that a 44 magnum 240 grain cast bullet over 22 grains of 2400 powder does. I conducted the test myself. Granted that my 10mm caliber prolly moves out a bit faster than yours does but if you can power a 180 grain cast 10mm to 1200 or a 200 grainer to about the same (pretty much the original loadings for the 10mm), the bullet will shoot through your black bear. I would opine that within a 25 yard range, those hardcast loads may break shoulder bones on the way in. If I knew I was going to be in bear country and had a choice betwixt a 45 auto or a 10mm auto for general stuff including protection, I would choose the 10 for its penetrability. Hope this helps. Mikey.

willis5 · « **Reply #16 on:** May 19, 2003, 06:01:24 AM »

Just get it. You can never have too many in my eyes. :-D

Ron T. · « **Reply #17 on:** May 21, 2003, 07:27:59 AM »

Black bears have been killed by .22 rimfire rifles, too... but that doesnt mean a .22 rimfire is a good bear rifle.

Black bears have teeth and claws... and theyre MUCH stronger (pound for pound) than we are. Even a small black bear weighing only 100-150 lbs can kill you very quickly IF they decide you are a threat.

The .44 Remington Magnum round has about HALF the foot/pounds of muzzle energy compared a lowly .30/30 Winchester rifle cartridge and many hunters question the .30/30 Winchester (aka .30 WCF) as a bear rifle". And consider that the .44 magnum is a LOT more powerful than a full-power 10mm semi-automatic pistol round. Are you starting to see where this is going?

Frankly, Id pack the most powerful handgun round you can accurately shoot and youll still be under-gunned. Ive found that I can shoot just about ANY cartridge in a handgun, but a full-power .44 magnum load is about as much cartridge as I can shoot with reasonable accuracy in a full-sized handgun like a Ruger Super Blackhawk or a Smith & Wesson 629. In a smaller, lighter handgun, a cartridges recoil is even greater than in a full-sized handgun something to remember if youre thinking about a pack gun.

Something you might consider rather than a handgun is this HOT PEPPER SPRAY designed specifically FOR bear protection. I understand it has been quite effective in the few documented cases I've seen of stopping bear attacks in mid-attack something a heavy caliber handgun MIGHT not do!

And the Bear Pepper Spray is a lot less expensive than a pistol.

Strength & Honor

Ron T.

kciH · « **Reply #18 on:** May 23, 2003, 04:07:10 PM »

I've been shooting the 10mm for about 6-7 years now. I also shoot a half dozen 41 Magnums, so I'm pretty familiar what the two cartridges will do. The 10mm is no 41 Mag, but it's no joke either. A 41Mag in a 7.5" revolver will push a 300gr SSK cast bullet in excess of 1300fps. While a 10mm would not be my optimum choice as a hunting round for these animals, it will get the job done. A 200grFN, like Beartooth Bullets, and others I'm sure, sell can be pushed to 1200+ fps in a 5" Delta. That will get the job done under 50 yds if you pick your shot. A nice, light, 10mm on your hip will work far better than a big heavy cannon you leave in the truck. The 10mm will break both shoulders of a whitetail at 50 yds with the above bullet when fired from a 6 1/2" Blackhawk at about 1300 fps.

RollTide · « **Reply #19 on:** May 29, 2003, 11:15:22 AM »

I used to advocate carrying hardcast bullets for black bear. I do not live in a state where I can hunt them, but I do ocassionally hike where black bear protection is a real concern. I cannot speak to the question of whether the 10mm is an appropriate caliber for black bears, but I now carry hollowpoints (partitions) in my 44 mag for black bear protection and here is why.

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=1777

Mr. Hack has more experince than anyone I have ever read concerning the effects of different types of loads on black bears. I trust his experience enough to change from carrying hardcast to hollowpoints for my personal safety.

Roll Tide

Paul H · « **Reply #20 on:** May 29, 2003, 11:38:52 AM »

The one thing most people forget when assessing rounds for self defense against dangerous game is not what rounds work under ideal situations, but which ones work well under less then ideal situations. In a self defense situation, you can't expect to perfectly place your shot, or shots if lucky enough to get off more then one. If you've ever read JJ Hack's story about when he got mauled by a black bear, you'll recall he never got a chance to draw his gun.

My personal thought is, you should choose a DA revolver, and the largest caliber you can shoot well. DA's can be shot as accurately as SA's, and sometimes more accurately, but you have to train shooting DA. I personally pack a 480, the smallest round I feel comfortable with against grizzly and black bears.

For black bear defense, I would choose the 44 mag as a minimum. I can certainly see the 10mm being up to the task when hunting, and carefully placing a shot, but it doesn't have the excess juice to make it a defensive round, IMHO.