Author Topic: Advice on first cap and ball pistol  (Read 2103 times)

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Offline steveb3006

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Advice on first cap and ball pistol
« on: October 09, 2006, 08:04:28 AM »
Gentleman, I have been wanting to get an 1860 Army for quit some time. I got to shoot a buddies new 1858 Buffalo yesterday but the primers didnt want to stay on the nipples. Ayy help for this? Also is the italian made better than the CVA. It will be a shooter, plain and simple so I'm not worried about the value going up but I want it to be made good. Also would you fellas have any suggestions as far as needed equipment to go along with the pistol. I cast my own bullets and I plan on casting for roundball too.
I just need some good tips and suggestions for getting a cap and ball pistol as this will be my first one.

How are these cap and ball 1860's for accuracy? Thanks in advance......Steve.
Its a helluva thing killin a man,you take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have
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Offline Will52100

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Re: Advice on first cap and ball pistol
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2006, 05:48:00 PM »
The 1860 is an excellent gun.  Better in MHO than the 58' Remington.  The colt is a more natural pointer, will keep shooting longer(bigger cylinder pin holds more lube) and is very accurate, grips are more comfortable to me also.  Down side is the hammer notch for a rear sight.

As for the caps coming off, the cure for that is to get Tresso nipples and use #11 Remengton caps.  They go on and stay on.  The Tresso nipples also last a LOT longer than factory nipples.

Midway is a good source.  Haven't had much luck with Cabela's, got several of there revolvers with no problems, got one that is a parts gun POS that I couldn't get them to replace.  I've heard good things about Cimmeron, suposedly there pretty much rite right out of the box.

 I've yet to have a revolver that I didn't have to do anything to, but have generaly had less work to do to Uberties.  There also just a little more authentic than Pietta's.  That said a good one of eigther make will do well.  I generaly perfere Uberti, but my favorite 51' navy is a Pietta.

Stay away from the brass framed guns, they won't hold up near as long as a steel framed gun and for the most part arn't made as well.
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Offline Will52100

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Re: Advice on first cap and ball pistol
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2006, 05:53:53 PM »
Oh as for accesories, go to VTI gunparts, http://vtigunparts.com/

Get extra hand and spring, trigger spring, and main spring for what ever model you get.  I've got one gun that went over a thousand rounds without breaking a spring, anouther that fired about a dozen.

Also a powder flask with 25-30 powder spout, Lee makes pretty decent double cavity round ball moulds, some crisco or bore butter, Remgington #11 caps, 3F black powder and .454 round balls and your in buisness.  Don't forget your shooting glasses, sometimes you get cap fragments scattered back at you, not a problem but why take uneeded risk?
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Offline steveb3006

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Re: Advice on first cap and ball pistol
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2006, 08:08:20 PM »
Also are these 1860's smooth bore or rifled barrels? ::)
Its a helluva thing killin a man,you take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have
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Offline Sir Charles deMoutonBlack

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Re: Advice on first cap and ball pistol
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2006, 05:15:59 AM »
Never saw one that wasn't!   When you get used to cap'nball revolvers, you will find that they can outshoot your conversions and newly made revolvers.  (Maybe its the long barrel/long sight radius?)

Offline steveb3006

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Re: Advice on first cap and ball pistol
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2006, 10:06:14 AM »
Never saw one that wasn't!   

Smoothbore or rifled?
Its a helluva thing killin a man,you take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have
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Offline simonkenton

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Re: Advice on first cap and ball pistol
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2006, 05:59:06 AM »
They are all rifled.
Aim small don't miss.

Offline longcaribiner

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Re: Advice on first cap and ball pistol
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2006, 06:49:05 AM »
My preference is a gun with a top strap, but I have and shoot the colt repros also. I would suggest you go with a steel frame, NOT BRASS.  for moderate loads, brass is ok, but with anything more, over time, they will shoot loose.  In a colt it is only the thread on the cylinder pin that holds the thing together.  While the wedge can be adjusted to keep the gun tight, if the threads start to pull loose from the other end, you are screwed.  (You mentioned CVA, and last I checked, theirs had brass frames.)   

I don't mind the clean up.  Some folks do. 

For accessories, I have seen some handy reloading gadgets.  A stand to hold the gun between shooting and for loading is great.  Tools for reloading and stripping the gun down should be handy. 

I recently saw a fellow's home built press for reloading his remington 1858 repro.  The cylinder is placed on a base with a pin.  A powder measure with five chutes measures the powder into the chambers and a press with a cylinder and 5 pegs presses all five balls into place at one time.  (He never loads more than 5 of the six chambers anyway.)    He can reload the cylinder in about 20 seconds with that outfit.     

Unfortunately, there is some getting used to what nipples and caps to use.  My Ruger Old Army has always been flawless with No 11 caps, until I used some CVA caps made of heavy brass.   I had a devil of a time scraping the spent caps off the nipples.    With my Uberti pocket police, I had to get different nipples becasue I couldn't keep the caps on the nipples  Some folks find that no 10 caps work better. 

Offline steveb3006

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Re: Advice on first cap and ball pistol
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2006, 07:51:40 AM »
Another question here. With the coversion cylinders say for the 1860 can you shoot LITE loads of smokless. Not to exceed black powder pressures?
Its a helluva thing killin a man,you take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have
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www.reloadingandlevergunning.blogspot.com

Offline woodnbow

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Re: Advice on first cap and ball pistol
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2006, 06:50:24 AM »
ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! You'll be building a very expensive hand grenade. Use blackpowder or replica black powder only in cap and ball guns.

Offline hrminer92

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Re: Advice on first cap and ball pistol
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2007, 11:05:35 PM »
I'm thinking about getting a C&B pistol too.

What are the main advantages/disadvantages of the various Colt & Remington replicas?

Thanks!

Offline Flint

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Re: Advice on first cap and ball pistol
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2007, 10:11:30 AM »
SteveB, the conversion cylinder made by R&D is a drop-in. The 45 Colt conversion cylinder is made of 4140 and/or 4150 steel, it is safe, repeat, safe with smokeless loads.  It is not safe for 45 Colt reloads noted for use in Rugers and Thompson Contenders.  It is safe using "Cowboy" loads, see Hogdon's reloading info.  I have shot thousands of rounds from R&D cylinders in 38 Special in converted Navies, and have shot many 45 Colt and Schofield in my drop-in 1860, both smokeless and black. 

In a conversion it is the cylinder that takes the pressure, the barrel and receiver are not required to be of as high a grade of steel.  One caveat is to buy some spare wedges from VTIgunparts, as the heavier, harder bullet hitting the forcing cone will be harder on the wedge of an open top gun.  I use 200 gr, rather than 250 grain bullets in order to reduce the hammering on the barrel throat as well as to better match the slow round-ball type rifling.

The original percussion cylinder is not safe with anything but black powder or a sub.  Even though 777 is a hot powder, and you will know you pulled the trigger, it is safe, pressure wise.   NEVER load the cap & ball cylinder with anything but black powder or a bp sub.


hrminer92, my opinion of the Italian repros is that the Uberti is a better gun out of the box, but the newest Pietta Remingtons are almost too close to  call as to comparative quality.  That being said, Uberti is now offering a forged frame Remington that should be better than anything either company has made up 'til now.

I prefer the Uberti in the Colt repro beacause it is more authentic in shape, for some reason, Pietta has an odd rake to the backstrap that looks and feels wrong on both their Navies and Armies.  In fact a Pietta 1860 will not even fit in an Uberti box.
Flint, SASS 976, NRA Life

Offline hrminer92

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Re: Advice on first cap and ball pistol
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2007, 02:40:46 PM »
Who makes the "Traditions" brand of revolvers?

I saw a steel frame Traditions 1851 Navy in a store today for $150.  Would that be a waste of money or a good deal?

Thanks for the advice.

Offline Flint

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Re: Advice on first cap and ball pistol
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2007, 07:16:18 PM »
If it is new at that price, it is probably a Pietta.
Flint, SASS 976, NRA Life

Offline Bad Flynch

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Re: Advice on first cap and ball pistol
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2007, 11:23:13 AM »
As far as the cap fouling goes, you can bet your bippy that any cap-and-ball revolver will cap-foul occasionally; it is just part of the game. You will see pictures of old-timers cocking their revolvers by raising the revolver, upside-down, over their heads ; that was to help dump out the cap fouling and help prevent the problem. Today, you would get tossed off a range for muzzle waving for those moves, but the old-timers knew what they were doing. Experiment with brands of caps as alread suggested. You might also check the hammer spring: a weak spring will allow the caps to blow off during firing and will cause more than a small amount of trouble. Many Italian replicas have suspect springs. I had a revolver once that had a casting flashing over the groove in the recoil plate that prevented fired caps from clearing a lot, a hand grinder took that out, thank heavens.

Virtually all of the replicas are Italian-made. The trick is to pick one from a good maker. Pick an Uberti or one of the newer Piettas. I favor the second or third generation Colt black powder guns, but I have a high grade Pietta that is a gem. Uberti is now making a high grade series called "World Class" that is really nice. More gun means more money, though. Euroarms are not too bad for low-priced guns. There are some really cheap guns out there, so avoid the very cheapest. Dixie Gun Works is a good place with which to do business and their customer service is great, should you have a problem.

Offline ronbow

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Re: Advice on first cap and ball pistol
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2007, 09:39:15 AM »
Skip the sphagetti guns. Get a Ruger Old Army.  ;D

Offline BigIron

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Re: Advice on first cap and ball pistol
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2007, 04:40:05 AM »
The Ruger is probably the most quality BP gun out there if you can afford it. The downside to the ruger is its not really a replica of anything.