Author Topic: Help me with Powder Differences  (Read 513 times)

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Offline Feldhege

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Help me with Powder Differences
« on: July 16, 2007, 04:19:10 AM »
So, I am just getting started in reloading more. I have been using just one formula (23 gr H110 over 240 gr JSP in my 44 MAG). Recently I see that some people are using different types of powders. I have seen some threads on Unique, W296 (which is similar to H110 right) and 2400. Is there some sort of resource that tells me why I would use one type of powder over another? What is the difference between them. If there isn't something that tells me these things, How would I know what powder I could (or should) try out? I assume it has something to due with the pressure curves that would be generated but I am not sure.

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Offline LaOtto222

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Re: Help me with Powder Differences
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2007, 05:22:22 AM »
W296 and H110 are full power type powders. Unique is a good low power lead bullet powder. 2400 is a good around choice. If you are getting the results you want from H110 then there is no reason to switch. There are lots of people that get good results from H110 and W296. If you are looking for a mid range or low range power for jacketed bullets, then 2400 is a very good choice, but not the only one. If you are looking for lead or cast bullet powder then Unique is a very good powder. If you are looking for a powder that will do it all then 2400 is a good choice. It has acceptable results with lead, and high or low jacketed bullet performance. W296 and H110 are not good powders to use if you want to throttle back some. They are full power powders only. Like I said If that is what you want then H110 is a very good choice; many many shooters get very satisfactory results. ;D You can get into how well powders meter through a powder thrower. All four of the powders mentioned work OK with a thrower. I have not considered it here. Good luck to you. I have found reloading is a very satisfying hobby, just pay attention to the details. They are more important than you might know. Experience will teach you (with unwanted results) if you do not pay attention how important it is. :o
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Offline LaOtto222

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Re: Help me with Powder Differences
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2007, 05:55:07 AM »
I am going a little further in an explanation of why gun powder reacts the way it does. There are different burn rates for different powders. There are coatings on powders that make it react differently too. W296 and H110 are powders that the powder manufactures have warned against not using full capacity or near full capacity with. If the capacity drops too low then they react differently. They will have different pressure curves. They can shoot way up in pressure even though there is less powder in the case. Does this make if safe to dump in 43 grains into a 308? Certainly not. The burn rate is too fast for it, the pressure curve is way too sharp. I guarantee you will blow up your gun. 2400 on the other hand is way more forgiving than W296 or H110 when it comes to a less than a full case. There are other powders that react fairly well to less than full cases like Unique and Blue Dot among others. Powder positioning in the case makes a difference too. There have been studies on forward powder vs rearward powder. The pressure bouncing around inside of a case makes for some interesting results. Lil'Gun seems to not react well to less than full cases. Always refer to established reloading manuals. I have many of them, 9 to be exact and looking to add more (reloading is a hobby to me). They will give you what powders are acceptable in your cartridges and the amounts of powder to use. I have a couple of my older reloading manuals that are pretty ratty from doing all of the referencing and thinking of new loads. Use modern books for your serious loading info. In general you get the most satisfactory results with a powder that has the correct burn rate that fills the case with out pushing pressures beyond the cartridge and gun design. I have been reloading for a while now and that is why I have older books along with newer ones. Again good luck on a great hobby. ;D
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Offline Dand

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get some load manuals
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2007, 10:25:11 PM »
I agree with the above poster.  Get some loading manuals and read the whole thing.  I like the Lyman, Hornady, Speer.  They will discuss the differences in powders, primers, cases and bullets. Also you can get free or cheap load manuals from the powder makers or on line. 
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Offline Grumulkin

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Re: Help me with Powder Differences
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2007, 01:31:45 AM »
H110 and Winchester 296 are exactly the same powder but H110 is consistently a little cheaper than the Winchester version.

Offline Savage

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Re: Help me with Powder Differences
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2007, 04:52:18 AM »
Get as many load manuals as you can find! Especially the ones from the power manufacturers. DO NOT use load data based on what you read of forums!! There's tons of free information on the powder and bullet manufacturer's web sites.

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Offline iiranger

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Re: Help me with Powder Differences
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2007, 06:05:29 AM »
If you like history, science history, gun powder is one of those "great leaps forward" from the late 1800s. Allegedly an experimenter wiped up some spilled nitric and sulphuric acids with his wife's tea towel (cotton) and finished his experiment. Realizing that the Mrs. would be HOT, he rinsed it and hung it on the stove to dry before she came home. Later he heard a "whoosh" and could not find the towel. So he tried other things and... This is a variation on the process for making nitro glycerin... reacting nitric acid with glycerin in a strong acid environment (the sulphuric acid). Thus one of the early terms for smokeless powder..."gun cotton." The reaction is with cellulose, the basic carbon in cotton, wood pulp, etc.

This material ---raw gun cotton-- would remind you of clay or other plastic material. Dupont worked out the system for making spagetti and gave us the IMR (Improved Military Rifle) powders. Successors to SR and MR powders... (Sporting Rifle and Military Rifle)... some roll it out and cut it into shapes, probably with a stamping device... I have seen that in pull down European military rounds. Much later, circa WW II, Olin/Winchester figured out how to make it soupy enough to spin out as balls and give us "ball powder" from a machine that spins the soup...  As I understand, part of the soup is nitro glycerin, adding to the energy... Hercules/Alliant has made "double based" powders for a century now, I think. Containing gun cotton and nitro glycerin. Needless to say, there are powder comapanies around the world and they do "job lot" work for anyone with the price. I believe Scot powders were originally from Scotland... (ha, ha) And Hodgdon had something made in Italy... Accurate were originally from Israel. Guess why Israel has a gun powder maker??? Now the Chinese are big into everything...

This is raw powder of varying characteristics. The refining to "cannister burn rates" is accomplished with coatings. Graphite is also supposed to ground the powder against static electricity. Col. Nontes had a book out that went into this in detail. The machinry is turned on and whatever comes out is tested. If it is near cannister, it is held back for blending with other "close" batches ... Otherwise it is sold to ammo companys with labs that work out their own loads, set up the machines and load a couple hundred thousand rounds. Thus, you do not use the weight of a load of powder from a commercial cartridge, 'CAUSE chances are you cannot get that powder!

As said, this is trivial mis-information to the shooter/hand loader. YOU do not worry about it. YOU buy from a reliable source and trust the data from that source. As said, COLLECT all the manuals you can find. Often they are quite cheap used at gun shows.

It is also amusing to some, IMR 4895 was originally developed by Dupont for the Garand .30/'06 load... After the war, Hodgdon bought train cars full of it surplus and was selling it for $0.50 per pound retail... (the good old days)... Only then did Dupont decide they wanted some of the $$$ and make it available cannister. Your 110 is/was an Olin powder (just like 296) but made for the government and got into the Hodgdon channels surplus. For the .30 Carbine round, I believe.

The manuals will explain, more or less, revolvers were developed around black powder. Thank you Mr./Col.  Colt. Case capacity reflects this. Full loads of slow smokeless like 110 can be very powderful AND KICK! You can use a much faster powder in smaller amounts... Bullseye is one of the oldest, to get 50%? 60%? of the performance with alot less kick... It is a balancing act. [At the same time, fill the case with that fast powder and your handgun becomes a gernade... please don't.]

You have begun a "learning process." Some of use enjoy the activity. Study. Think. Act carefully and responsibly. Enjoy the journey.