Author Topic: Super Blackhawk conversion project? (Read 2780 times)

Heavy C · « **on:** November 13, 2007, 02:17:48 PM »

I'm curious...say an individual had a used SBH in 44 mag. Would it be possible for that individual to have a gunsmith re-chamber that revolver to something like a 454?

I know, I know you can get a Freedom Arms or even a BFR. So, would it be possible?

John Traveler · « **Reply #1 on:** November 13, 2007, 02:30:15 PM »

The early development of the .454 Casull revolver/cartridge used Ruger Super Blackhawk frames and new five-shot cylinders. The extremely high chamber pressures of the cartridge prevent it from being safely chambered in a six-shot cylinder for that frame.

I know of NO responsible qualified gunsmith that would re-chamber and re-barrel your .44 Magnum Super Blackhawk to the .454 Casull cartridge. The liability issues alone will prevent that.

A conversion with new five-shot cylinder and new barrel are certainly possible, but the cost will come close to or exceed that of a properly chambered new revolver. Again, for liability reasons, there are few gunsmiths that will accept this project.

HTH
John

Camba · « **Reply #2 on:** November 13, 2007, 02:31:44 PM »

He may be able to trade it in for a SRH chambered in 454 Casull a lot cheaper.

Camba

BlkHawk73 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 13, 2007, 02:34:08 PM »

Certainly is possible. Is it worth what it costs to you to have it done right though? It'll require a new 5 shot cylinder and the fitting thereof. Also a new bbl or re-boring your existing one.
I'd only trust a few to do this for me, Bowen, Limbaugh, Clements and Strohs. Even then, as mentioned above they may not undertake it for liability reasons. Cost would be close to a Freedom Arms but it's just not the same as a nicely done face-lifted Ruger SA.

Swampman · « **Reply #4 on:** November 13, 2007, 03:11:16 PM »

"Cost would be close to a Freedom Arms but it's just not the same as a nicely done face-lifted Ruger SA."

I agree

kennisondan · « **Reply #5 on:** November 13, 2007, 03:59:21 PM »

you could definitely convert it to a 45 with five long 45 caliber linebored chambers and five hole cylinder and anything else you want to do with it ... it would be a heavy 45 not a 454... not a lot of difference unless you really gotta have that extra little bit and the numbers on the side... and I am not sure about the extra bit part, in practical terms ....
the described gun will be fine for most every purpose that a 454 would suffice for...
you could add a bisley grip...
or you could sell the sbh and get a bisley base gun and have the 45 five hole job done on it too....but that was not the question
maybe easier..
good luck
dk

Heavy C · « **Reply #6 on:** November 13, 2007, 04:43:23 PM »

Thanks guys. I figured it would take a five shot cylinder because of the higher pressures. I knew of the SRH, but a single action is just better in my opinion. You'd probably run that SRH in single action made anyway in 454.

Now if you have a Blackhawk in 45 Colt can you load those 45 Colts hot?

kennisondan · « **Reply #7 on:** November 13, 2007, 05:31:24 PM »

five shot conversions, six shot stock rugers ... all very powerfully made guns... you need to check with someone per p messages for specific loading info..... I am thinking that some may consider that a dangerous question, or the potential for a dangerous answer if misunderstood or misused... but the answer is generally yes... a lot hotter than any 45 colt or clone... the manuals list separate loading categories for colts and clones and then higher pressure loadings for stock rugers..
FAs, etc.
there are also some articles on loadings for the five shots that cover them specifically... I understand.. from looking at the manuals, : the stock rugers handle much more pressure than clones and colts...
and
five shots handle more..
I call that hot..
with a standard ruger grip my six shot ruger goes from wow to oww rite quickly.. it can bet really brutal and still be within spec.
the loading manuals will show you a lot of difference between the others and the rugers. Just be careful wanting to go hot... it is all about safety, you will hear time and time again... paranoia is nature's way of saying : be careful
hope that helps.
dk

GatCat · « **Reply #8 on:** November 13, 2007, 08:24:07 PM »

Heavy, in your last post you asked about loading a .45 colt Blackhawk 'hot". Yes, you can load them "hotter" then standard .45 pressure, but you CANNOT equal the pressure that .44 mags are loaded too. The cylinder walls are just too thin. For a real eye-opener, look at the thickness ( or lack thereof) between the cylinder notch and the chamber. Be careful!
Mark

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #9 on:** November 14, 2007, 12:35:44 AM »

Ive seen it done on a 5 shot. It doesnt have any advantages to a 5 shot 45 colt conversion and brass is cheaper for the 45 colt. Another problem your probabaly going to run into (at least for me) is the super frame isnt comfortable even with stout 44 loads. It would hurt me with heavy 45s or 454s. If it were me id have to go to a bisley grip frame or at least a standard blackhawk frame. A much better solution if you want a 45 is to just find a barrel and cylinder off a 45 colt and have them fitted. Sometimes the gunsmiths that do big bore conversion have them laying around and you used to be able to find them on ebay all the time. You can run a 300 grain bullet easily to 1200 fps in a large frame ruger with a 6 shot cylinder in 45 colt and that will take care of anything that you will ever hunt. Thing is so will the 44 mag with the same load so your not gaining much other then maybe if a guy just wants a 45 cal gun. Going any faster with a cast bullet in a handgun is going to do very little for killing power and just cause you alot of headaches with bullet construction. More then 1200 fps with a cast bullet about demands that you be a caster yourself so you can experiment with alloys. sizes, and lube to make it work. Your cheapest two routes are going to be either to live with your super in 44 or trade it for a 45 blackhawk. If you truely are set on a 454 id skip the ruger single actioin. It can be done but the pressures your going to be running on the top end make it a maginal setup. I cant stand the bfrs but that might be an alternative for you. If you want to step up in power in a ruger custom your better off going to a 475. You are going to get more power at lower pressures. Hands down best bet for a 454 is a Freedom arms gun. The platform was made to make it work and they can be found used for less then youd have into a 5 shot conversion on a ruger fittedwith a bisley frame.

Heavy C · « **Reply #10 on:** November 14, 2007, 07:14:53 AM »

I always appreciate your insight Lloyd. I was looking at the standard Blackhawks last night. I just like 45's and thought it would be cool to have the option of running 454's and 45's in the same revolver. However because I don't necessarily want to break the bank or risk having a marginally safe revolver I'll probably go with the standard Blackhawk and may even get a conversion model so that I can run 45 ACP if I so desire.

Thanks to all of you for your feedback and for indulging my imagination.

Heavy C

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #11 on:** December 01, 2007, 09:12:30 AM »

Just shoot the .44 Mags! If you want bigger boom order buffalo bore loaded stuff or go for the 300 grain hard cast lead. The cool thing about the Ruger is they expected people to load and hunt with bigger longer bullets and made a long cylinder for it. So you can reload almost anything into it. Most reloading manuals have a separate section for Ruger and T/C.
There is nothing that the .44mag can not do that the 454 can with proper shot placement.
Enjoy.

Racer X · « **Reply #12 on:** December 01, 2007, 02:28:22 PM »

I get the impression that some of the smiths aren't wild about doing 5 shot 454 conversions on Blackhawk frames. Bowen states in his book "The Custom Revolver" that some of the early loads FA published on their website were "Nuclear" and even some of their guns got shot loose. Case life was horrible, maybe lasting 1 or 2 reloadings, due to the extreme 60K + PSI pressures.

Conversely, a 5 shot 45 Colt approaches 454 performance, but at 5%-10% less chamber pressure, which does alot for extending the gun's life.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #13 on:** December 02, 2007, 12:42:07 AM »

racer x has hit a good point. Some smiths dont recomend 454s on 5 shot rugers . MOst will do them if you beg a little though. Some of the 454 ammo that has been made pushes 60000 pd of pressure and even if the cylnder holds up and is safe it will beat up a gun i a stead diet of it is shot. You have to keep in mind that a custom gun is linebored and usually fitted to perfection and abuseing it wll take away some of that perfection. If you handle a custom ruger done right you will notice a level of smoothness that a FA doesnt have. The freedome arms guns will have more of a feel of a bank vault. There built to be extreamly stout and they give up a little bit of the smooth feel (i cant think of a better word then smooth). They are also made of stronger steel then a ruger so theres probably even less of a chance of frames stretching. Dont get me wrong a ruger 5 shot is a very strong gun and will handle loads that are withing spitting distance of what a freedom arms will handle. The extra 10000 psi of pressure the FA gun will handle isnt buying you much of anything in the field but its fact of life that they are stronger. In any other chambering id say its not worth even arguing about but for a 454 if it were me and i wanted one id be looking at a FA.

Heavy C · « **Reply #14 on:** December 02, 2007, 09:43:11 AM »

For what it's worth I've given up on the 454 idea. I intend to keep my 44 mag, but I will add a 45 Colt to the collection. I've done more reading on the 45 Colt and realize how much potential it has on it's own beyond cowboy loads. Am I duplicating? Maybe, but that comes with the territory when you collect guns too.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #15 on:** December 02, 2007, 02:00:30 PM »

I think your making a good decision. The big bores are for very experienced handgunners and take some work to master and personaly like ive allways said im not a big fan of the 454. I shoot only cast bullets and truely believe that a cast bullets max effecientcy out of a handgun peaks at about 1300 fps and a good 6 shot ruger 45 will handle that with a 300 grain bullet. to me if i want to step up from that its going to be into a bigger caliber that will shoot larger diameter heavier bullets at 1300fps. Thats another reason ive allways prefered the 480 to the 454. In my opinion although it may not look it on paper it is a more powerful round and and if you really want power then step up to the 475 or 500 linebaugh or the 500 smith.

Castaway · « **Reply #16 on:** December 03, 2007, 09:10:03 AM »

Lloyd, you said something in a post above that got my attention about recoil of the 44 vs. 45. I find a load with the same weight bullet at the same velocity isn't nearly as uncomfortable with a 45. Physics tells us the recoil is the same, but the 44 seems to be much more snappy to me. The 45 is, and I use the term loosely, more of a push with less of the snap in the 44. Granted, either at full-house loads are a handful, but my preference is toward the granddaddy of them all, the vaunted 45 Colt.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #17 on:** December 03, 2007, 10:37:20 AM »

personaly i dont think theres spit differnce between a 44 and a 45 shooting the same weight bullet at the same speed for recoil or killing power.

okie john · « **Reply #18 on:** December 04, 2007, 01:18:27 PM »

I’ve owned a 5-shot 45 Colt and a 5-shot 454, both perfectly executed on Ruger Bisleys by David Clements. Both cylinders were substantially larger in diameter than the stock cylinder, and a good bit longer to let you seat bullets out to have more room for powder. Both were also superbly accurate.

In guns like these, the only meaningful difference between the 45 Colt and the 454 Casull is that you can buy full-house 454 ammo over the counter.

Okie John

Archblackmage · « **Reply #19 on:** December 05, 2007, 04:52:17 AM »

look up gary reeder and check out his custom eye candy you might find something you like or fits your needs

Ravenwolf · « **Reply #20 on:** December 06, 2007, 11:17:48 AM »

I own a 5-shot 45 Colt (see pic) and have loaded it up with 335 grain LFNs at 1450 fps. They are a handful to say the least, but I was using them for called in black bear hunting and wanted a heavy load as they come in close and fast. However, now I mostly use a heavy cast bullet with a velocity of around 1200 fps and this makes for a much easier handling load both on recovery time and the pounding my hand takes, plus I know it will take anything I will be hunting just as well as the hotter load. For me the 454 belongs in FA's 83 which was built around the cartridge or one of Ruger's DAs as it's weight helps to control the recoil. I've always found it easier to shoot the 475L than the 454 due to the 454s blast and sharper (to me) recoil.