Author Topic: Grain increments  (Read 787 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline cbourbeau32

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • A Real Regular
  • *****
  • Posts: 801
  • Gender: Male
Grain increments
« on: June 28, 2007, 04:17:49 PM »
Hello all. I am working up loads for my 7mm 08 and 243 Handi rifles and have a question. I initially loaded 4 or 5 loads between min and max that varied about 1-1.5 grains between each load. Now that I have found the one for my 7mm 08 that shot the best out of that first group . What grain increments do I use to work up and down from that load to find the "sweet spot"? I hope I made my question clear enough. Thanks, Charlie
NRA Life Member, US Navy Veteran.

Oklahoma has 77 counties, Romney-77, Obama-0

I'll keep my Guns, my Freedom's and my Money.
You can keep the "Change"

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43301
  • Gender: Male
Re: Grain increments
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2007, 04:29:10 PM »
I work loads in ½ gr increments, except for the hornet cuz it's such a small case, it gets .1gr increments. Sometimes if I see a sweet spot near a max load, I'll tweak in .2gr increments, but that's not usually necessary. You can then fine tune how far off the lands you're loading to see if you can make a good load even better!!

Have fun Charlie!

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline cbourbeau32

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • A Real Regular
  • *****
  • Posts: 801
  • Gender: Male
Re: Grain increments
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2007, 04:31:58 PM »
Then let me ask another question Tim. How far off of the lands should a Handi be?
NRA Life Member, US Navy Veteran.

Oklahoma has 77 counties, Romney-77, Obama-0

I'll keep my Guns, my Freedom's and my Money.
You can keep the "Change"

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43301
  • Gender: Male
Re: Grain increments
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2007, 04:40:49 PM »
If you can reach em with enough bullet depth in the neck(one caliber usually or close to it), I usually go for .010" to .015" off, but that's not always possible with lighter for caliber bullets, so I just load to recommended COL in the data I'm using.

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline PHATINJUN

  • "Seeker of the Red Mist"
  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (144)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4076
  • Gender: Male
Re: Grain increments
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2007, 04:39:58 AM »
Not trying to highjack your post but I have a ?on what your working at. Do you get your load shooting the best it can with the powder changes then start work on bullet seating depth? Kurt
Deceased 2/16/24
https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/machesney-park-il/kurt-heckman-11671764

Sportster17M2,20"Nickle410Tamer,26"410,
WTUTI12ga,WTU25-06,M158 22RemJet, 24"Ultra.204Ruger24"UltraFluted.204Ruger
M157Mannliker.22Hornet,24".223UltraFluted,   24".223Ultra,7X64BrenekkeUltra,22-250AIUltraFluted            7.62x39,22"303Britstub.32H&Rmag, .32303BritstubHuntsman,24" SS.50calHuntsman 58calHuntsman 12gaHuntsman
NEF RevolversSSModel73.32H&Rmag                     Blued Model73.32H&R mag The herd is shrinking!!
                                 "SOLI DEO GLORIA"

Offline victorcharlie

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3573
Re: Grain increments
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2007, 03:53:00 PM »
Not trying to highjack your post but I have a ?on what your working at. Do you get your load shooting the best it can with the powder changes then start work on bullet seating depth? Kurt

Yes, that's what I do.  I find that seating the bullet just touching the lands, or just a few thousands off give me the best accuracy most of the time.

I also work in .5 grain increments.
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
Barry Goldwater

Offline LaOtto222

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3828
  • Gender: Male
Re: Grain increments
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2007, 01:12:15 AM »
I also work in .5 grain steps. I start with the bullets kissing the lands, if I can. If the bullet will not reach the lands, I seat them out as far as possible, but never less than 1 bullet diameter in the case. After I have developed the best load, I try seating the bullets off of the lands a little (.010 - .020) to see if it helps. The ones that will not touch the lands, I leave alone as far as seating depth and work up my best load.
Great men have vision and resolve to make dreams come true.

Offline Ron T.

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 646
Re: Grain increments
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2007, 07:43:16 PM »
In my reloading experience (40+ years), "sweet spots" are generally about 4/10ths of a grain wide, so if you use increments of 3/10ths of a grain increments between loads, you'll generally "hit" one end or the other end of the "sweet spot" in the rifle/powder/bullet/primer load combination.

Once I find the "sweet spot", I drop down to just a 1/10th of a grain increment... and load "up" and "down" the scale from the "sweet-spot load" using a chronograph to tell me what kind of muzzle velocities I'm getting.  Then, if the round is to be a hunting load, I choose the load with the highest muzzle velocity and the best or almost the best accuracy.

Again, "generally" I've found that the "sweet spot" is often 1.0 to 3.0 grains below the maximum load.  But in a few cases, the most accurate load WAS the MAXIMUM LOAD.   

And in a few rifle/powder combinations, the rifles shot well with ANY load of that powder.  :)


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."  - Thomas Jefferson

Offline Georgen71

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 22
  • Gender: Male
    • My page at myspace
Re: Grain increments
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2007, 08:29:14 PM »
That "sweet spot" is probably going to have the most consistent pressure and velocity. Try using a Crony on the loads you are working up. Borrow one or check out E-bay. I don't have one yet but plan on getting one soon. They can be very useful when working up an accuracy load. RCBS has one that I am considering. Geo.

Offline Coyote Hunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2534
Re: Grain increments
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2007, 03:04:05 AM »
Over the years my reloading technique has changed a great deal as I started using premium bullets.

In the old days I would use 0.5g increments.  A typical work-up load scenario would mean ~35 test loads, 3-4 at each powder charge.  At the high and low ends I often tapered the number of loaded rounds down to 1 cartridge.  Then I would go to the range and shoot.  Each shot got recorded as to velocity and point of impact.  In the end I would look for 2-3 consecutive powder levels where accuracy was consistently good and choose a final load as a result.

There were a couple things wrong with that methodology.  The first was the expense with premium bullets.  The second was the number of shots required – keeping the barrel cool meant long days at the range, it meant the first loads were shot with a relatively clean barrel that got progressively dirtier (something a Bore Snake between powder charges can fix).  Finally, I often reached a maximum load before I hit the top charges and had a fair number of bullets to pull when I got home – especially if I was trying more than one bullet/powder combination.

So I came up with a new method that seems to work every bit as well and saves money and time.  These days I load just ONE cartridge at each powder level. I start at a safe starting point and often load to a point past what I think will be maximum.  Each shot still gets recorded for velocity and point of impact and I still stop when the rifle tells me to.  When I get home I pull the bullets form the unfired loads then inspect the target and velocity data.  What I look for is a consecutive string that shows consistent velocity increases with good accuracy.  I’ll choose a load from the middle of such a string, build some more for final testing and, if the test results are good, which they usually are, I’m done.  This process saves time, money, wear and tear on the rifle, and I don’t pull nearly as many bullets.

In electronics and mathematics there is a truism that says if you want to sample for an event and make sure you don’t miss it if it occurs, you must sample at twice the frequency of the event, or faster.  In the reloading world, this means that if you think 1.0g is going to make a difference, you should sample at 0.5g increments.  If I was going for gilt-edged accuracy I would sample in smaller increments, but 0.5g has worked for my hunting loads.  Often I’ll choose a final load level that is in-between the initially tested loads (say xx.8g or xx.3g instead of the tested xx.0g or xx.5g levels).

Hope this helps.
Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

Offline SHOOTALL

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23836
Re: Grain increments
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2007, 04:52:24 AM »
alot of good imfo fer sure , also case length should be the same each time and with regard to seating depth i have found that in a few cases seating the bullet touching the lands or near touching them may not be the best depth , so i also try seating the base of the bullet flush  with the bottom of the neck , a 300 WM worked better this way ! i wish i knew why but to be honest i couldn't say ,
If ya can see it ya can hit it !