Author Topic: 454 casull in encore (Read 1607 times)

vanbuzen9 · « **on:** July 28, 2007, 05:34:17 AM »

Hey guys,

Any of you shoot the encore with the 12" 454 barrel on it? I've been thinking about getting one of these as opposed to the plain

vanilla 44 mag. Of course, it will be used mostly for deer hunting with reduced loads, but I like the option of loading it hot for anything

else that I may hunt, elk, moose, t-rex, ect. Anyone with info on this round out of an encore such as accuracy, recoil, ect. please post

your comments. I have had a 308 barrel for about a month now and love it, thanks to your suggestions, but I have to get a straight-

walled cartridge barrel for deer season ( I live in southern michigan).

thanks,
Preston

Grumulkin · « **Reply #1 on:** July 28, 2007, 12:03:05 PM »

I have shot a 12 inch 454 Casull Encore. The recoil is more than a 308 Win. at least when neither are muzzel braked.

Rather than a 454 Casull, I'd suggest a 460 S&W Mag. with a brake. If you like you could still shoot 454 Casull cartridges in it. Be warned, however, that the recoil has been described as "abusive" by some. With the right loads, it should be at least a 100 yard deer gun if scoped properly.

As far as scopes go, don't go for cheap. Between my 500 S&W Mag. and 460 S&W Mag., I've now trashed 3 scopes. I sent my 500 S&W barrel to SSK Industries and had them mount a 2.5 - 8X Leupold Vari X III scope on it with their 6 screw, 4 ring T'SOB mount. The 500 S&W will now do 1 to 1.5 inch 3 shot groups off the bench at 100 yards which I could never get it to do before. I was so pleased with those results, I've now sent a couple more barrels to SSK Industries for the T'SOB mount.

poncaguy · « **Reply #2 on:** July 29, 2007, 04:14:42 PM »

I have a 15" 460 S&W Encore, recoil is very stout. I usually shoot 45 Colts in it and 454 Casulls..............in a 12" barrel, ouch!!

rickyp · « **Reply #3 on:** July 31, 2007, 06:06:18 AM »

I have a 12" 454 encore barrel. recoil is manageable but I can only shoot about 40 rounds at any one session.

for the 460 shooters that mostly shoot 45 colt or 454 rounds out of it- why didn't you just get a 454
if you are only going to shoot a few 460 rounds out of it at a time is it worth having? accuracy may be good with the shorter rounds but it will never be as good as with full length rounds and by shooting the shorter rounds you are creating a ring of burned powder at the mouth of the shorter round and really needs to be scrubbed and you will get some flame etching at the end of the shorter cases.

poncaguy · « **Reply #4 on:** July 31, 2007, 02:50:20 PM »

Because I like to be able to shoot 3 different rounds in one barrel. I don't shoot it that much anyway, usually shoot my 7-08 barrel for deer hunting. I have a bunch of different barrels for my Contenders and Encores. I know I don't need them...........but, I have about 50 firearms......just an old (66) gun nut.

Grumulkin · « **Reply #5 on:** July 31, 2007, 03:56:19 PM »

Quote

for the 460 shooters that mostly shoot 45 colt or 454 rounds out of it- why didn't you just get a 454

I would tend to agree but there is the possibility that once hardened to shooting 454 rounds, one would want to advance to the 460 rounds. I personally don't desecrate my 460 with lesser rounds.

rickyp · « **Reply #6 on:** July 31, 2007, 04:17:38 PM »

"Because I like to be able to shoot 3 different rounds in one barrel"

shooting a shorter round out of a longer chamber will never produce the best accuracy I am sure you will get descent accuracy but not what the barrel and you can really do.

it can also be a safety concern when dealing with such high pressure rounds. if you should develop a crud ring or flame etching from one of the shorter rounds and then fire a 460 you can spike pressure. a crud ring can happen in as few as 1 round and flame etching with the high pressure of the 454 can happen very fast

Blunderbus · « **Reply #7 on:** August 01, 2007, 03:59:12 PM »

Trying this one more time.

I have a 12-inch .44 magnum Encore and it is very pleasant to shoot. Very much like eating plain vanilla ice cream.

The .44 magnum only seems anemic when compared to the .454 Casull or (horrors!) .460 S&W. I can remember when the .44 magnum was considered plenty hairy-chested. And I ain't that old. In either Encore pistol barrel length, you will enjoy a significant boost over revolver performance levels with any given load. If you're really hot for a .454 by all means go for it. But don't sell the Old Girl short. The .44 magnum has killed the snot out of many, many deer. And, on an Encore at least, probably killed fewer scopes.

It has never occurred to me to try .44 Specials in my Encore barrel, or any other .44 magnum. The only situation ammo interchangeability has ever mattered to me is when it comes to shooting .38 specials in a service-grade .357. We're talking single shot hunting handguns, here. I agree with rickyp.

As for elk and moose, that .308 barrel you already own is perfect for those. You're set!

poncaguy · « **Reply #8 on:** August 01, 2007, 04:53:59 PM »

I clean my 460 after shooting it, have no problem with ring build up.

rickyp · « **Reply #9 on:** August 02, 2007, 03:54:43 AM »

Just because you clean it every time and don't see a ring build up doesn't mean it is not there and you are getting flame etching of the chamber
the ring build up is most dangerous during the firing session. you shoot a box of 454 then you pop in a 460 and you can have pressure issues
the flame etching is happening every shot weather you see it or not! I had a 357 mag contender barrel I got at a great price you could see a etched ring right at the spot a 38 special case mouth sits this ring could not only be seen but you can feel it when cleaning it. I bought it with the intentions of making it into a 44-357 B&D. I decided that the 357 was cheap enough to just keep shooting it as is, the barrel was very accurate but very hard on cases I would get a slight bulged where the ring sat and the brass was a little stiff to remove I would only reload a new case 2 times because i was afraid of case separation.

The idea of being able to shoot shorter rounds has always sounded good but in practice they never really turned out to work just right. I was always taught to shoot what ever round your gun was chambered for and not to put some other round in it even if it fits

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 03, 2007, 01:20:16 AM »

vanbuzen9, I had a Encore in 454 Casull and 460 Mag. I liked them both. I did however find the recoil to be a bit more than my S&W 460 Mag even when I did not use a comp on the S&W 460 Mag. I would recommend the 460 Mag over the 454 Casull for the reason of being able to shoot the 45 Colt 454 Casull and the 460 Mags. But even though the 460 Mag will shoot all the other rounds, I have always stuck with just the 460 mags in mine. I topped the gun off with a Warne mount and rings with a Bushnell 2X6 scope.

Selmer · « **Reply #11 on:** August 03, 2007, 04:12:18 AM »

vanbuzen9, I own a .454 Casull 12" barrel for my Encore, it's the first barrel I bought for it. I bought it for the express purpose of shooting Iowa whitetails and not having to shoot them with a (gulp) shotgun! (I'm a SD boy, shotguns are for things with WINGS!) Anyway, I've loaded everything from 7 gr. of Unique and a 250 gr. SWC up to max loads of H110 behind a 370 gr. GC. It is definitely manageable, I did purchase a set of Denzel Roberts's Recoil Tamer grips which helped immensely. If you're interested in load data, PM me and I'll get you some, I have had very good luck with accuracy in many bullet weights. My preferred hunting load is more than I need for deer, but I can also hit milk jugs at 200 yds. with it from a good rest. I use H110 and a 320 LFNGC made by Lloyd Smale. I use a 4x Leupold EER scope, the first one I bought for it, I sighted it in once and it has stayed there for 5 years now. The 320 gr. GC runs 4 shots into 1" at 100 yds. and takes out qt. oil bottles at 100 yds. very consistently. I have pictures of all of my targets and have kept all the load data, but I would expect your barrel to have its own preferences that don't necessarily correlate with mine. I purchased the barrel prior to the release of the .460 S&W and considered having it rechambered, but it's already as much as I want to shoot, why would I mess up a good thing with something that might not be better that and I probably would shoot to max anyway?
My vote is for the .454 barrel, you'll enjoy it, especially if you handload!
Selmer

irold · « **Reply #12 on:** August 05, 2007, 02:56:37 AM »

Several months ago, I had Fox Ridge shorten my 15" 460 to 12" and install their muzzle tamer. The oal is 13.250 inches. The muzzle tamer helped , but, its still a handfull. My son has a 10" bull in 454 for his encore.....its pretty much the same as my 460. I've shot several Pa whitetails with the 12" 44 mag barrel, not nearly as abusive to shoot, and guess what, the deer were just as dead with the 44 as with the 460. Not trying to talk you out of a 460....or a 454, but both will rock your world. good shooting, Mike

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #13 on:** August 05, 2007, 05:21:13 AM »

My only comment on one is I had one and sold it. Mind you I am not as experienced as a lot of you guys on big bore hand cannons but after seeing how much fun some of you have with these I had to have one . My first shot knocked the new scope right off it onto the concrete. That should of been a sign. I had it figured to if I am gonna have big gun shoot big bullets so I was shooting don't even remember what ones but they were Buffalo Bore and a real handful I have always tried to at least kill something with a gun before I get ride of it and I did shoot a small doe with this bbl from about 50 feet away and I swear it took the deer right off her feet and she was dead before she hit the ground. It was fun will it lasted but I never made it thru the 50 rounds of Buffalo bore before I sold her WAY TO MUCH GUN FOR ME I envy you guys that can play in that sand box though. Kurt

Tom W. · « **Reply #14 on:** August 05, 2007, 03:15:11 PM »

Just a thought here, gents... If you reload, why not use the .460 brass in the .460 barrel and download a bit?

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #15 on:** August 06, 2007, 03:03:06 AM »

Quote from: Tom W. on August 05, 2007, 03:15:11 PM

Just a thought here, gents... If you reload, why not use the .460 brass in the .460 barrel and download a bit?

You need to be careful when loading down in the 460 Mag, with the wrong powder such as H110, you could get massive pressure spikes and blow up your gun. It is the same as loading down a 454 Casull.

Turk · « **Reply #16 on:** August 06, 2007, 09:46:56 AM »

Preston,

You may want to consider a 480 Ruger barrel. TC has discounted the caliber but there are still new ones at shops and the custom shops plus used ones. My Encore slings a large cast bullet without as much felt recoil my Super Red Hawk 454. I shoot a lot of big bore handguns and the 454 is the most punishing handgun I own. Go to the following sites.

The lacs site is a good overview of the caliber even through it’s talking about a SRH.

http://www.lasc.us/480Ruger.htm

On the Hodgdon site compare bullet weights/velocity and pressures between the calibers your interested. Lower pressure means less felt recoil.

http://www.hodgdon.com/HomePage.php

You should find this site interesting on penetration.

http://www.handloads.com/misc/linebaugh.penetration.tests.asp?year=all

One other thing don’t sell the 44 Magnum short I would hunt any North American game except the Grizzly/Brown bear with it hunting the big boys my choice is a 9.3 X 62 mm Mauser round.

Turk

Keith L · « **Reply #17 on:** August 06, 2007, 03:03:20 PM »

" I shoot a lot of big bore handguns and the 454 is the most punishing handgun I own. "

I am not doubting, or arguing with you about this, just wondering why? I have seen bunches of 454 revolvers for sale with notes saying things like "6 shots fired", and "only shot once" and the like so I know it isn't the gun for a recoil averse guy like me. Just wondering why this one is worse than the bigger ones.

Ladobe · « **Reply #18 on:** August 06, 2007, 04:02:04 PM »

Quote from: Keith L on August 06, 2007, 03:03:20 PM

" I shoot a lot of big bore handguns and the 454 is the most punishing handgun I own. "

I am not doubting, or arguing with you about this, just wondering why? I have seen bunches of 454 revolvers for sale with notes saying things like "6 shots fired", and "only shot once" and the like so I know it isn't the gun for a recoil averse guy like me. Just wondering why this one is worse than the bigger ones.

Back when the Encore first came out my 3nd barrel for it was a 12" 454 (15" 7BR & 223 came 1st)... and I would have been able to make that same statement at the time. I already had a lot of handcannons on hand and had been shooting some of them for decades. Loved my big JDJ's and Bower's for the Contenders for hunting and shot long practice sessions with all of them often - even hundreds of rounds in a session. I was shooting hot loads in the 454 Encore (H110/260 gr), so that may have been some of the problem along with only factory grips available for the Encore at the time. But it was a brute with massive torque that my other handcannon shooting friends who braved it didn't like it much either. Most quit after 1 or 2 shots - one on about the 3-4 shot when he split a knuckle on the trigger guard and some wouldn't even shoot it. Even the 416 Rigby I shot on the Encore later was more user friendly than that 454 - no kidding. In my case anyway, it was the torque and not the recoil that made it uncomfortable to shoot for very long in a shooting session.

FWIW, their are lots of good choices for the Encore or Contender that will easily handle anything you come across hunting that will do so accurately a lot further away than the 454 will, and are much more enjoyable to shoot.

Luck with whatever you choose.

skarke · « **Reply #19 on:** August 08, 2007, 08:31:39 AM »

These hand canons are very susceptible to pressure spikes with lightened loads. Be very careful, I'd hate to read about an accident.

Selmer · « **Reply #20 on:** August 08, 2007, 10:02:40 AM »

skarke makes a VERY good point. If you're loading for the cannons, make sure that you use different powders for different applications. I personally have gone through several for the .454 Casull and have settled on only NEEDING two: Unique and H110. Unique is great for plinking to mid-range loads and is very accurate, H110 is used exclusively for heavy loads and not backed off more than 10% of maximum.
Selmer