Author Topic: HELP.....My .243 Ultra Varmint action is opening upon firiing!! (Read 1758 times)

sms1717 · « **on:** August 08, 2007, 03:10:11 PM »

Hi Guys,

I bought this rifle new back in March, here in Canada. I shot a couple of boxes of factory ammo through it when I bought it, with no problems other than a case sticking in the chamber. I took it to the range last week and the action opened on my when I fired!! Scary for me. I loaded another round a closed it up tight and again it opened upon firing. I put the rifle away and took it home. I blew compressed air in and around the action thinking something may have somehow lodged itself in the action and cleaned with a rag a little excess gun oil that was in and around the ejector and the face of the chamber. I took it back to the range the next day and it stayed closed for 2 shots then opened again when fired. I need this fixed! I have shot approx. 60 rounds through it. I checked the H&R website and it says to ship back to manufacturer in the U.S. Is there a Canadian Service repair shop?? I don't think I can ship it across the border. ANY HELP? I will call H&R tommorow to see what they say.

Thanks

buckbeast · « **Reply #1 on:** August 08, 2007, 04:20:35 PM »

You may want to start with the POP OPEN MEDICINE in the FAQ's.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums//index.php/topic,86700.0.html

quickdtoo · « **Reply #2 on:** August 08, 2007, 04:46:20 PM »

So far as I know, there are no Canadian service provisions unless the dealer you bought it from will take care of it. Read the pop open info, the answers are there.

Tim

RWK · « **Reply #3 on:** August 08, 2007, 05:42:53 PM »

Guys lets all of us wake up, the factory is not is not doing there job, stuff like this should not happen we got these guns because there suppose to work, not send it back to the factory to look at

? its wrong guys and girls. Rich

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** August 08, 2007, 05:45:00 PM »

And the sky is falling, sheesh!!

Tim

~Ace~ · « **Reply #5 on:** August 08, 2007, 05:48:43 PM »

trotterlg · « **Reply #6 on:** August 08, 2007, 06:13:42 PM »

I was not aware that the factory painted the latch or barrel shelf. Guess that is the first thing you should do, scrape off all the paint they put on. Did you know about this Quick? Larry

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** August 08, 2007, 06:21:20 PM »

Nope, never seen any paint on the latch or shelf, bluing is all I've noticed, or what they call bluing!!

If the gun was shooting fine before, it's gotta be debris under/on the barrel keeping it slightly open or in the chamber preventing complete chambering of the round, or possibly oil on the latch/shelf if the latch engagement is nominal. This is "assuming" handloads aren't being used, that's another kettle of fish, or can of worms if you will!!

Tim

Dave Allen · « **Reply #8 on:** August 08, 2007, 07:56:39 PM »

hello..i have had this happen before...as mentioned i think the big question is were handload's used when the pop-open's happened

i have never had a problem with pop-open's using factory ammo...i have on handload's because i wasn't pushing the shoulder back enough when resizing...

Gunsmith 01 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 09, 2007, 06:54:26 AM »

The factory has two service centers in Canada. I'm sure if you call the factory service department they can give you the names and phone numbers.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** August 09, 2007, 07:21:12 AM »

Hmmm, is that new or just a well kept secret?

Fred M from Alberta has tried to get factory service on his two Ultras and was unsuccessful.

Tim

sms1717 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 09, 2007, 04:22:09 PM »

I do not reload. I have fired just under 60 rounds out of this rifle all factory ammo, federal power-shoks to be exact and a couple of winchesters (Ididn't like). I didn't get a chance to call the factory today, however I removed the barrel and checked out the locking mechanism there was trace amounts of oil on the "lug" for lack of a better word. I dried with a rag. There was no debris in the action/hinge as I suspected, because I have yet to hunt this rifle (only target shooting). I will try at the range one more time before I send this rifle somewhere. I hope it all works out because this thing shot sweet before it opened up on me. I got a 1/2" 3-shot group with it at a 100yds. using federal 100gr power-shoks. I made 5 shots sighting in a new scope on it and then 3 consecutive shots with a hot barrel when I made that group. The following session at the range is when the pop open trouble started.

trotterlg · « **Reply #12 on:** August 09, 2007, 05:54:40 PM »

It is most likely just some gunk some place, or a little oil where it should not be. As disconcerning as it may be, the opening part takes place long after the bullet has left the barrel, if it didn't you would find the case head in your head. I had one that would do this, when I upped the load or decreased the load it stopped, something about how the thing resionated or something, but it does happen. Spray it out with some good Brake cleaner and see if it doesn't fix the problem. Larry

sms1717 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 11, 2007, 02:14:10 AM »

Well I took it to the range yesterday and put about 15 rounds through it and it never popped open, which is good. What I don't understand is how it pops open. It is a piece of metal wedged into the groove of another piece of metal a little oil shouldn't affect a mechanical lock-up like that. Any comments on that?

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 11, 2007, 03:17:42 AM »

sms1717

By having one metal wedge that locks under another metal wedge that is spring loaded you will find that when the barrel flexes forward as the round is fired , the pressure of the round being fired may cause the barrel wedge to come out from under the frame ledge if you have an inproper latch engagement , check to see how much bluing is rubbed off the barrel lug wedge .

If you have only a min. latch engagment and oil on the mating faces it will allow the barrel ledge to slip past the frame ledge and have the barrel to pop open .

Were as a bolt gun has locking lugs to keep the chamber held closed tight , the H&Rs will flex some .

I hope this makes sence , its still early .

stimpy

trotterlg · « **Reply #15 on:** August 11, 2007, 05:12:38 AM »

I think the pop opens are caused by harmonics in the rifle after firing. The latch is not locked in place, it held by spring pressure. The "ringing" of the barrel and frame probably cause it to just bounce out of contact with the latch shelf and let the barrel pop open. I have seen things like this happen many times while doing high speed photography on distructive tests at work, things you could not imagine happening do all the time. I don't think it is something to be extremely worried about, it must be opening long after the bullet has left the barrel or there would be other very bad things happening which don't. Larry

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #16 on:** August 11, 2007, 06:45:46 PM »

I am very happy with my Handies. I shoot Groundhogs past 300 yards with them and am tickled. Yea I did get what I paid for. Just a note though I may be buying a 204 Ruger in the Remington 700 SPS or the 243 SPS Varmint. Just can't make my mind up yet. Dale

jj141979 · « **Reply #17 on:** August 11, 2007, 06:47:54 PM »

I got a 22-250 in Ultra varmint Fluted, it opens up all the time, I tried factory ammo and handloaded ammo no matter what the thing opens up!!! I sent it back to H and R for evaluation havent got it back yet but it dont shoot good with factory or handloaded ammo either!! They are really going to have to care of me for me to recomend a firearm to someone. I have all kinds of different actions from all over the world, the H and R is bye far the worst!!! If you like playing with your gun and doing things you normally would not do to a bolt action, if you like tinkering with a gun then its problably the best action you can bye

But if you are like me, someone who dont have time to play like some other people do, then do not get this action. THE ONLY GOOD THING ABOUT THIS ACTION IS ITS MADE IN THE U.S.A.

jj141979 · « **Reply #18 on:** August 11, 2007, 06:52:02 PM »

SOUNDS LIKE THE SO CALLED "BANK VAULT" THEY TALK ABOUT ON THERE WEB SIGHT DONT IT!!! My 9 year old is stronger then there action is!!! And that is no lie!!!

trotterlg · « **Reply #19 on:** August 12, 2007, 05:42:06 AM »

There = Their

sms1717 · « **Reply #20 on:** August 13, 2007, 02:29:46 AM »

As for the latch engagement there is only a fine line of bluing wore off the edge with slightly more on the right side corner. How do how much is enough? Can I adjust it? As for owning other rifles....I do remington's, Savage, and Ruger but I still like my Ultra Varmint I just wish I wouldn't have to worry about it opening up (because it just shouldn't do that and yeah the "bank vault" comment I want to know what bank so I can get more money

.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #21 on:** August 13, 2007, 05:28:08 AM »

If you've read the FAQs and the Handi basics and done everything you can, it's time to contact H&R and have them fix it if you can locate the Canadian service center. If not, the barrel fitting info in the FAQs tells how to get proper latch engagement. But I'd call H&R and find out where in Canada to send the rifle, their toll free number is (866)776-9292.

Tim

Mac11700 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 13, 2007, 06:57:05 AM »

Quote from: sms1717 on August 11, 2007, 02:14:10 AM

Well I took it to the range yesterday and put about 15 rounds through it and it never popped open, which is good. What I don't understand is how it pops open. It is a piece of metal wedged into the groove of another piece of metal a little oil shouldn't affect a mechanical lock-up like that. Any comments on that?

Yes...I'll comment on it... It isn't wedged into it...it is wedged onto the shelf...

The H&R action is a friction fit lock up..The concave latch pivots upward and fits on a angled shelf...It doesn't have full contact across it's bearing surface,but only on that part of the shelf that has the very fine thin line across it... To be fitted properly...the wear line on the barrels shelf must be even all the way across it...otherwise it isn't bearing even on the shelf...but more on the side where it shows on the shelf.When that high stop wears down..the latch engagement may be wrong...and can allow the barrel to flex open on firing.

Any oil on this area will not allow the action to lock up as it is designed to do.

One other thing to bear in mind about these actions...and that is that with a very tight fitting forearm bearing against the receiver can mask this problem. By having it tight enough that the barrel has to be helped by hand pressure to open will help some on a incorrectly fitted latch.As trotterlg has said..barrel harmonics do come into play here because of the barrel flexing as it does and is this one of the reasons folks are told to try shooting it without the forearm attached to it...

I have had it both ways with the forearms on properly fitted barrels and with a few that had high spots on them...Once that high spot was worn down a little...every thing changed...but on the properly fitted barrels it has helped my accuracy having the forearms tighter than normal on a couple of them...and hasn't made any difference on a couple of others that were fitted correctly either...so you might want to try it both ways and see......Each rifle is different

Quote

THE ONLY GOOD THING ABOUT THIS ACTION IS ITS MADE IN THE U.S.A.

I beg to differ with you...While you may be very displeased with yours...others aren't...and making untrue blanket statements as a fact...not as an opinion is not acceptable. Sometimes folks will get a lemon...and the only recourse is to have it replaced...It doesn't matter if you spend $3000 on a rifle...there is always that possibility. Cop an attitude with the folks in customer service at NEF and I guarantee you will not like the outcome...They aren't the ones responsible for assembling your rifle...but are the ones you must speak to to resolve your problems...and 1 thing for certain... they won't tolerate someone getting rude and obnoxious with them on the phone...Be nice and professional...and you will be treated the same

Quote

They are really going to have to care of me for me to recomend a firearm to someone. I have all kinds of different actions from all over the world, the H and R is bye far the worst!!!

Provided you act professionally on the phone with them...they will take care of you...just as they have taken care all of us...just as any other gun manufacture would...

This rifle has been copied by many different manufactures...It's design is sound for the it's intended purpose...within it's limitations....It is real easy to bad mouth it when comparing it to other rifle actions...especially when your angry about your having problems....but...you are comparing apples & watermelons...How many other single shot break action rifles do you own that you can compare it to? If none...then your comparison isn't being objective...only derogatory...and of no real value to us.This isn't a bolt action...nor a falling block...and to compare it to them is wrong...

Be courteous when speaking with customer service...and explain what issues they are having...even though they angry about it having problems it won't do them a lot of good to take their frustrations out on the person on the other end of the telephone line...Folks can Ask to have a call tag sent to them so they don't have to incur any additional expenses for shipping the rifle back to the company...They shouldn't demand things be done for them..or shouldn't start off calling the rifle junk or a P.O.C. to the CS tech...if they do...well....they are never going to be a happy cusstomers...

Mac

quickdtoo · « **Reply #23 on:** August 13, 2007, 08:33:08 AM »

Here's the Canadian service centers....

Tim

Long's
Colburg, Ontario
Phone: 905-797-2700

Ultimate Accuracy
St. Andrews, Manitoba
Phone: 204-785-2609

tmccray45 · « **Reply #24 on:** August 14, 2007, 03:09:43 AM »

Say what you will about H&R, but one of the nice things about that company is their service center and the people that staff it. I've had a problem like this and after about 10 seconds of my description of the problem, the person on the other end told me to ship them the rifle and they'd take care of it.

(As it turns out, the problem was mine. I was handloading and I had allowed the cartridge to elongate to the point that it exceeded the maximum length. After sizing them properly, I never had this problem again.)

PartsMan · « **Reply #25 on:** August 14, 2007, 03:55:20 AM »

My 25-06 (first handi) popped open every other shot and shot 3" groups when it was new.
After reading the facts i gave it a good cleaning (tons of "grease?" in these things),
oiled the action, added and o ring to the fore arm, and wiped of the latch.

Turned out to be a sub inch rifle that never popped open again.