Author Topic: .358 win. range report (Read 2739 times)

tanoose · « **on:** July 30, 2007, 02:45:05 PM »

Rifle is a browning BLR with a 20" barrel Three different bullet types gave me one hole groups at 50 yards
shell-new win.
primer-cci-BR2
bullet Speer 220 FP
powder-IMR3031
charge- 47.0
coal-2.680
chrony velocity average- 2420fps Seated to crimp groove with 52.0 of win 748 gave me 2345 fps

shell- once fired win
primer-cci-200
bullet-sierra 225 SBT
powder-IMR-3031
charge-44.5
coal-2.780
chrony velocity-2365 also tried 40.0 of IMR 4198 /2356fps and 49.0 of Varget/2355fps groups not as tight but still very good

shell-new win
primer-cci-BR2
bullet-Hornady 200 RN
powder-IMR3031
charge-47.5
coal-2.605
chrony velocity-2470 fps

I sighted this rifle in early spring with factory winchester 200 silvertips and while this three loads above gave me the best groups every load from 200-even 250 grain bullets at 2100 fps all hit the same point of impact every load stays within a 2" circle at 50 and 100 yards. I think i will try some remington 200 spcl and see how they fly and then decide between them and the speer 220's.

pagris · « **Reply #1 on:** July 31, 2007, 06:47:16 AM »

Nice report tanoose. My .358 BLR's really like IMR 3031 as well. I am curious as to why you used two different types of primers - any particular reason?

tanoose · « **Reply #2 on:** July 31, 2007, 10:55:49 AM »

Someone had given me 1,000 BR2 primers awhile ago and i ran out of cci-200 primers so i just started to use them. In the past i compared the cci-200 and the cci-BR2 primers and found no change in accuracy,velocity and pressure. As far as i am concerned they are the same except i think the BR2 primers are $10.00 more per box.

tanoose · « **Reply #3 on:** July 31, 2007, 11:12:56 AM »

I forgot to post this load ,

Shell-new win
primer-cci-BR2
bullet- speer 220
powder-win.748
charge--52.0
coal-2.680
chrony velocity-- 2370fps On my first load above i stated that i also used 52.0 of 748 with the speer 220 seated to the crimp groove giving me 2345 fps.
This load is the same except the coal was 2.680 and my velocity went to 2370fps. Its only 25 fps faster but i wanted to let you know and accuracy was the same.

BlackWolf · « **Reply #4 on:** July 31, 2007, 12:35:05 PM »

Have you done any tests with the 250 grain bullets from the .358 win - in my post lower in the forum here it seems like a lot of guys had been shooting these. I can't decide which ones to try 200, 220, 250.... so many choices!

GradyL41 · « **Reply #5 on:** August 01, 2007, 07:51:31 AM »

I think you will find that 200 or the 220s, 225 are plenty--just for deer-- the remington 200 PSPCL has a jacket thikness of .024 at the tip or meplat area -- so they expand pretty easily at least the last one I cut up did any way-- the 220 and 250 Speer have jackets of .18-- so they tend to expand pretty well --especially the wide meplat 220 -- as for me the 250 are over the tope - they shave shot well in any of the 3 .358 I have had but they are just too much-- as to powder I have found that a ball powder such as H335 one of my favs--seems to give less perceived recoil--than stick llike varget- H335 is also very fast normally --my .2

tanoose · « **Reply #6 on:** August 01, 2007, 02:16:32 PM »

Blackwolf, last month i tried three different loads with the Hornady 250 round nose bullets loaded to the crimp groove with cci-200 primers and once fired brass

powder win748
charge--47.0
chrony velocity 2100 fps

powder--IMR3031
charge--42.0
chrony velocity--2100fps

powder--- RL-15
charge--45.0
chrony velocity--2050 fps I guess my rifle doesn't like RL-15 as i expected 100fps above the imr and win powders but actually go 50 fps less.
I realy like the speer 220's and the hornady 200's and i expect the reminmgton 200spcl should give the same results. I hope so because you cant beat remington prices.
the next time out i am going to use imr3031 with 48.0 with the 200 RN and i think that load would be a great load for deer and black bears, and at under 100 yards it should be good for moose hear in the north east.I will probibly play some more with the 250's next year but for now i am very happy with what i have so far. The 250's had outstandind accuracy at 2100fps but i would think i could get alot closer to 2300 fps

rickt300 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 04, 2007, 09:11:40 AM »

Nice work. I haven't tried that many loads in my BLR yet. It seems to shoot everything well though. You might try CCI 250 primers if you are having a cratering problem. The BLR doesn't have a spring loaded firing pin and seems to cause the primers to show cratering long before pressures get up there. Tougher primers seem to alleviate this some. I wish my different weight bullets had similar POI but you lucked out and I didn't.

tanoose · « **Reply #8 on:** August 06, 2007, 11:58:49 AM »

Thats whats great about this rifle any load from 200-250 including the winchester factory ammunition will all stay within a 2 inch circle , i was wondering if this was the norm for the 358. I have the same problem with my 30/06 Ruger ultralight i sighted it in with 180 grain factory PSPCL and the 150's and 220;s all hit the same point of impact regardless of factory or reloads.. For this year i'll use the 200RN at around 2500 fps. Later Tanoose

Country Boy · « **Reply #9 on:** August 07, 2007, 06:06:05 AM »

I've used a .358 quite a bit on game. Two loads: 54 grns 748 200 grn bullet a little over 2500 for deer:
For bear 250 speer 53 grns of 748 for 2370. These loads came from a Barnes manual. and they are compressed but So far I've had no pressure problems. I also like 3031 and 46 grns give a 200 grn bullet around 2500. These are coronographed loads out of a BLR with 20" bbl. The best powder I ever found was AA2015br but they don't make it any more However AA 2520 looks interesting but I haven't tried it. I've only killed a few deer with the 200 hornady but I've killed 26 black bear with the .250 speer and they fall on their face.

tanoose · « **Reply #10 on:** August 09, 2007, 10:20:46 AM »

Country Boy 53 grains of win 748 with a speer 250 grain bullet??? My barnes manual doesn't show 748 at all and i beleive 54 grains is about max for a 200 grain bullet i haven't seen a reloading manual go above 47.0 are you sure about that load . Please tell us what manual you load data is coming from . I may be wrong but that sounds more like a load for the 35 Whelen. Thanks Tanoose

GradyL41 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 09, 2007, 12:32:31 PM »

I have a Weatherbye Vanguard 22" barrel- I used that same load for awhile and it damaged the gun--bent the floor plate opened the head space from the battering --I seen have that floating around but was unsafe in my gun-- and no it did show any overt signs of too much pressure--ever since then I have used pretty much nothing but 200-225 gr bullets-- still use 748 some but nothing like the 748/ 250 load my experience

Country Boy · « **Reply #12 on:** August 09, 2007, 12:40:20 PM »

Ok, I don'tknow what edition the manual is as I loaned it out but tore out the .358 Win page. I know it's not in their first manual so it is a later edition.On page 563 there is an intro by Nick Caico at bigbores.com /on page 565 it lists the following for the .358 win. 53 grns of 748 vel 2496 also imr4895 47 grns for 2408 I tried and coronographed the 53 grain out of two different Blr's (scared me to death) and got 2370 ! The 180 grain bullet can easily be pushed to 2800 + and the .225 to2500 +
   I couldn't believe it either when I found those loads. I had been using AA205br/ but the new xmr 2015 will not equal the old stuff, not acccording to my conograph.
   I have a friend who took a blr to Africa using these loads for the .225 and .250 he never had any pressure problems and my tests conducted on a hot july day didn't either. But they still make me nervious and you need a long drop tube. Use original .358 brass.
   I loaded up some 20 boxes of AA2015br before I ran out so that should last me for hunting bear for awhile I got 2320 with 43.5 grains for the .250's But 748 is a good substitute. All these loads are actually coronographed in a Browning blr with 20" bbl.
   No bear,moose or elk has ever gone more than 20 ft. when hit with the .250 grn speer hotcore. But, i seldom shoot over 150 yds.

tanoose · « **Reply #13 on:** August 12, 2007, 06:18:34 AM »

Thanks Country Boy Barnes as been very good in the past as far as giving out reloading data so i'll send them an e-mail thanks again Tanoose

Country Boy · « **Reply #14 on:** August 14, 2007, 06:41:10 AM »

Tanoose ! Did you ever call barnes about those loads ? I'm curious as to what they said.

tanoose · « **Reply #15 on:** August 14, 2007, 10:18:58 AM »

Received this e-mail on those loads
Hi Daive

Both loads are listed in the #2 manual and in the first printing of the #3
Barnes Manual. However the W748 load has since been taken out. I can only
assume there was just cause to remove the data. For this reason I don't
recommend the W748 load data.

Thanks, Ty

We Aim to please, reloading is a great hobby, enjoy it.

Ty Herring
Barnes Bullets
Customer Service Director
P.O. Box 215
American Fork
Utah 84003
Tel 801-756-4222
1-800-574-9200
Fax 801-756-4222
Email: email@barnesbullets.com
What bothered me about the W748 load of 53.0 with a 250grain bullet was that in the winchester manual they use 46.2 of W748 for 2250 fps in a 24" barrel and they show the pressure as 50,500 so i was assuming that a 53.0 grain load would be well over SAAMI specks. But then again we are talking about the Browning BLR and its alot like using out of speck loads in a marlin or ruger with the 45/70.

Country Boy · « **Reply #16 on:** August 14, 2007, 12:16:45 PM »

Well Ill be a son of a gun ! Did they give any recommendation for powder ? I looked at AA2520 for 2390 in their book but haven't tried it yet.

GradyL41 · « **Reply #17 on:** August 14, 2007, 02:29:05 PM »

I am not surprized they removed it -- as it was a truly hot load-- it shot very well looked and acted like it was OK but in my gun it was not-it has been around for a long time as i saw in Handloader mag over 20 years ago-- for me H335 and BLC#2 has given the highest velocity with book loads-- as a matter of fact I use nothing but H335 in my last remaining .358 although I would like to have a BLR.358--I have used IMR3031, 4895, 748, 2015, 2230, 2495? h322-Varget, and have settled on H335for all things --of course I only shoot 200, 220, 225-- I have 3 boxs of 250's but they mostly set there

tanoose · « **Reply #18 on:** August 18, 2007, 11:50:41 AM »

Country Boy the barnes manual i have reccommends two powders with there 250 grain bullets

these are the max loads with these powders

IMR4895--47.0---for 2408 FPS

H322--44.0--for 2380 FPS

IMR4895 they also reccommend for there 225 grain bullet
They used a 24" barrel in there tests.

Country Boy · « **Reply #19 on:** August 19, 2007, 09:06:41 AM »

Thanks Tanoose ! 44 grns of H322 is that right ? is that a starting load or max? Have you tried it ? I didn't like putting that much 748 in a case. What about AA2520 ? I'm swtill looking for a substitute for the old AA2015br the xmr2015 doesn't do the joib according to my friends cornograph.

tanoose · « **Reply #20 on:** August 21, 2007, 03:52:50 PM »

yes 44.0 of H322 is correct its the max load they start at 40.0 They dont show 2520 in my manual . My accurate data shows 48.0 of 2520 a max load for 2462 FPS with the Hornady 250 RN in a 24" barrel while my hornady book shows 46.3 of AA2520 as a max load for 2300 fps in a 24" After the big game season ends i am going to do some more tests with the 250 grain bullets. I am very interested in tring the woodleigh 250 RN this bullet should be excellant in the 358 as long as impact velocitys dont go under 1700fps and i would rather keep that number at 1800 . Later Tanoose

rickt300 · « **Reply #21 on:** August 21, 2007, 04:58:33 PM »

So with IMR 4895 I should be able to get 2300 fps with a 250 grain bullet out of my 20 inch barrel? I'm into it. have to empty some brass.

tanoose · « **Reply #22 on:** August 23, 2007, 01:46:31 PM »

I would think so Rick i am going to try for it for next year , another powder Norma 201 produced the highest velocities in the Barnes manual with every bullet from 180-250 the max load for the 250 in my manual is 47.0 for 2438 fps with a starting load of 43.0 for 2203fps The Norma 201 was also rec-commended for there 225 grain bullets . I would think you could get the following in the 20" BLR
200grain--2530 fps
225 grain--2430 fps
so why not 250 grain--2330 fps.

Country Boy · « **Reply #23 on:** August 24, 2007, 09:01:16 AM »

I have gotten 2350 or better with three different powders. IMR 3031, AA2015br and 748 not a guess but over a coronograph. the 3031 came from an old speer book. I don't like the 748 load (53) grns as it fill the up into the case neck. But it works and shoots great. I'm trying to back off from 748 as I can no longer get AA2015br (I think they call it xmr2015 now)

rickt300 · « **Reply #24 on:** August 24, 2007, 09:24:45 AM »

53.0 grains of 748 under a 250 grain bullet is 5 grains over max from the manuals I have to look at. How high did you have to go with 3031? Normally I work up slowly until I get pressure signs but in non bolt action repeaters I stay closer to what the books show.

Country Boy · « **Reply #25 on:** August 26, 2007, 08:46:01 AM »

The old speer manual I had (I don't know what edition but it was sprial bound) shows the following with .250 grn bullets in a 22" bbl.48/4064/2440 - 46/3031/2440 - 49/4320/2403 - 45/HV2/2443 also 49/4895/2397 and 45/BL-C/2315
These were coronographed in a Win. Model 70 with 22" bbl.
The 53 grn load of 748 was in the barnes second edition and third edition. I shot numerious loads in my blr. with no problems but it always made me nervious as it filled the case neck about 1/2 way up.
There is an two part article about the .358 by Packo Kelly atwww. sixgunner.com very intresting read, says he shot an elephant with the .358 win. gives lots of loads, information, comparisons with other cartridges. You oue it to your self to read it. I'm not a glob trotting hunter so my experience with the .358 blr has been limited to two elk, one moose, 26 blackbears and about 3-4 dozen deer and wild hoigs. All I know is when I hit something with a .358 it goes down right there ! and I've never had to track anything.
I have owned and hunted with the following .358's: Savage 99 A.Winchester .358,Custom Ruger 77 with 22" shilen bbl. and 3 Browning Blr's with the steel reciever. I now only own1Browning blr. I think it is too much for deer even with 200 grn hornadys, IMHO I think the .225's are a compromise, but too tough for deer anything they do the .250's do better on larger gameThis is actual field experience talking. Bear hunting is my passion and I taken a number of 500 lb + bears, weighed not guessed. The .358 continues to amaze me at how it puts them down plus the moose and elk.

tanoose · « **Reply #26 on:** August 27, 2007, 12:42:54 PM »

Country Boy thanks for the data. Which 250 grain bullet are your choice in the BLR for Black Bears And have you tried the IMR 3031 with the 250's in your BLR? I worked up to only 42.0 with the Hornady 250 RN with imr3031 and chrony velocitys were 2100 FPS

Country Boy · « **Reply #27 on:** August 28, 2007, 12:50:48 PM »

I have used three different bullets. The speer hotcore . the hornady 250 spirepoint and the sierra & nosler .225.
I found the .250 speer to be the toughest. I've only recovered one and it looked just like the pictures in the magazines. I also found a hornady .250 in a medium sized bear. Most of it's nose was gone. The speer fell out when we skinned the bear ,it had gone through both shoulders and lodged in the skin afer breaking a leg bone. Same with the hornady.
I've shot bear with other calibers and bullets but the .358 speer has proven most reliable, never had to track one.

tanoose · « **Reply #28 on:** August 29, 2007, 07:46:49 AM »

Thanks Country Boy i will have to give those 250 grain bullets another try after the big game season ends . This year i will stick with the hornady 200 RN i have worked up to 47.5 of IMR3031,with great accuracy at just under 2500 fps. I just loaded up some more IMR3031 working my way to 49.0 . I'll give them a try in two weeks and then decide which load to use this year. I am hoping to get 2530 FPS with good accuracy. I'll post another range report in a couple of weeks. Thanks again Tanoose

Country Boy · « **Reply #29 on:** August 30, 2007, 01:09:13 PM »

I've used the exact same load you memntioned with 200 hornadys and it really does the job on deer. I shot a nice buck some years ago through the briskit and killed it. I didn't hit any vitals and I'm still scratching my head on that one.