Legal and feasibility questions...

[demented]

 My question is can a single frame be used as both a rifle and pistol?  I know what the law says about short barrel rifles, etc. but an unsure about the legality of using one frame (if barrels and stocks will even fit?) to convert from handgun to rifle. If it's not 100% legal, no way I'd even consider the switch. 

[Graybeard]

Yes if it's a handgun frame sold as such and manufactured as such. NO if rifle frame so it seems but there has not yet been a test case on that issue in court. I'm sure not gonna be the first such test case.

Once upon a time TC said all frames were reported to BATFE as handguns. Dunno if that was true then or if it is true now. I think it less likely now but just plain dunno.

For sure no barrels less than 16" with rifle butt in the US. That's the one given we can all agree on, the rest always brings lots of heated debate but bottom line is that not yet has there been a test case in court regarding a rifle frame coverted to handgun. Even if some misinterpret the TC Court case to be such. It was not.

[demented]

Thanks. My first concern was staying legal, that for sure.  So, provided I won't get the ATF on me if I don't use a shorter than 16" barrel with a rifle stock, what frame do I buy?  I know ZERO about Contenders, Encore's.  Thanks for any help with this.  The only Thompsons I've seen are at gunshows, have never seen anyone using one or know anyone that owns one. 

[Graybeard]

The primary deciding difference between Contender and Encore as I see it is what chamberings you're interested in. The Encore can handle most all but the fat supers like WSM and Remington Ultra Mags but the Contender is limited to milder rounds. Check out the list of rounds the TC Custom Shop will chamber both to and make your decision based on that is my advice. The new G2 Contender is more or less a smaller size Encore in effect. Not exactly of course but more or less so. Barrels for the Contender are far more readily available on the used market but barrels for both are out there and cost wise there is really not a lot of difference. The Encore frame is close to a pound heavier.

[Steve P]

According to the folks I contacted, as long as the firearm is set up according to factory specifications, they are legal to set up either as a handgun or a rifle/carbine.  T/C has NO DOCUMENTATION that explains how to install a handgun barrel with a carbine or rifle stock set up.  The T/C literature is very clear and is specific for handgun and rifle to include stock/grip description and barrel lengths.

http://www.tcarms.com/manuals/

12Ga Muzzleloader Supplement | Adobe .PDF (579 KB)

45 Super Load Charts | Adobe .PDF (123 KB)

Black Diamond Manual | Adobe .PDF (1608 KB)

Encore Muzzleloader Manual | Adobe .PDF (2219 KB)

Encore Pistol Manual | Adobe .PDF (646 KB)

Encore Rifle Manual | Adobe .PDF (6293 KB)

FireStormManual CL and FL | Adobe .PDF (3944 KB)

G2 Contender Manual | Adobe .PDF (671 KB)

G2 Contender ML Manual | Adobe .PDF (1341 KB)

Icon Manual | Adobe .PDF (2572 KB)

Omega Muzzleloader Manual | Adobe .PDF (1393 KB)

R55 SemiAuto Manual | Adobe .PDF (632 KB)

Shooting TC Side Lock Black Powder Guns | Adobe .PDF (1791 KB)

TC Triumph Manual | Adobe .PDF (3263 KB)


Steve 

[demented]

 The "healthiest" rifle caliber I'd ever use would be a .308 Winchester in the rifle barrel.  As for pistol set up, probably would be a pistol caliber, I'm not much into serious hunting with a handgun.  Thanks for the replies, gentlemen!

[Graybeard]

The .308 Winchester requires an Encore but in a Contender you can use the .309 JDJ to safely duplicate .308 performance if you're a hand loader.

[Rog]

Graybeard,

It is my opinion based on published load data, that the 309 JDJ does not exactly duplicate the 308 Win in Contender/Encore handgun barrels.

Hodgdon's is a good source for 308 15" bbl data.  Much better than anything I've seen on the 309 JDJ.

As good as the 309 JDJ is, it ain't no 308.  It's about as good as it gets on the Contender platform for a 30 caliber, though.

 
Rog

[Graybeard]

I believe it's within about 100 fps or so with most all bullet weights. Maybe not an exact duplicate but certainly close enough for me. It uses a larger case capacity at lower pressures to do pretty much the same thing a .308 does. No animal hit will be able to tell the difference. If you're one of those types who just absolutely HAVE TO have every last fps available then a .308 probably isn't gonna be your choice anyway.

[jhalcott]

  A friend of mine has a 309JDJ and I have a .308 lone eagle. we tested some loads from each over MY chrony. Graybeard is close to what we got with 150 and 165 grain bullets. Factory  and surplus 308 loads bested his ammo by about 125 fps.. His MOST accurate loads compared to mine were only about 50 fps slower.  I've seen more difference in factory loaads than 50 fps!

[Grumulkin]

1.  If you buy your Encore or Contender from a FFL holder as a handgun and the sale is recorded as such, you should have no worries about putting a handgun barrel on it.  It would then be legal to put a rifle length barrel on it.  You can't put a rifle stock on a frame with a barrel less than 16 inches in length legally.

2.  If you want to know if the frame originated as a rifle frame or a pistol frame, you can call Thompson/Center with the serial number and they can tell you (I have done this).

3.  I have heard from what I consider to be reliable sources that you can put a pistol barrel on a frame originally sold as a rifle frame at least under Federal law.  There is also State law to consider.  Pennsylvania, New York and some other states have handgun registration.  In my opinion, it would be illegal under State law in those states to put a pistol barrel/grips on a frame sold as a rifle frame.

[ihunt49]

 Grumulkin said: There is also State law to consider.  Pennsylvania, New York and some other states have handgun registration.

Pennsylvania DOES NOT have handgun registration. You have to go thru a background check to buy but there is no database kept on ownership.