Hunting with a ML hand gun?

[Saloon slug]

I was doing my morning routine the other day which includes watching what ever hunting show is on while I put on my boots and get ready for work. I didn't catch what show and only saw the teaser but they were going deer hunting with a traditional ML hand gun not a CB but a true front stuffer. It even looked like a flinter with a scope but I may be wrong about the scope. My question is does anyone here do this or know someone that does. And if so what do you use.

Thanks in advance.

[longcaribiner]

Pa just legalized muzzleloading handguns for "big game"  50 cal and up,  but the minimum weight for the projectile requires a conical in a .50 caliber, however, a patched round ball is legal in a .54 cal.

There aren't many traditional style production pistols that fit the bill.  Our late season still requires flintlock ignition.  I have a .50 flint pistol from Traditions, , but it is horribly unreliable.  (it is probably part due to my not taking the time to work out the bugs in the lock)      I may be stuck building a proper gun from scratch. 

The problem of many of the production guns is that they are quite off balance & front heavy.   I have thought about building one of those, reverse lock pistols.  From the side they look like a semi auto pistol and have a lefty lock mounted backwards on the right side.  The barrel can be shifted back an inch to an inch and a half, removing some of the tendency to be so front heavy.   


There is a tendency of folks from the School of "More is Better" that will take a 10 inch 50 cal barrel and throw 90 grains and a concical in there.   Much of the powder is wasted in muzzle flash because the powder doesn't fully burn before the ball/bullet leaves the muzzle.    The powder itself takes up an inch and three quarter to two inches of bore leaving even less room for the powder to burn.   

[Saloon slug]

Thanks for the info after looking at some on the net I see what you mean about front heavy. I also see what you mean about powder charge that is alot of powder to waist especialy when the .45colt only used a 40grn charge and the was/is a heck of a round

[hunter58]

It's not a flintlock , but here is what I use in Indiana to hunt whitetails with.

http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o24/hunter58_2006/?action=view&current=IMG_01982.jpg

[roundball]

For what it's worth, I have a couple of thoughts on BP handguns for deer...

1) First reaction was that there will be an awful lot of wounded deer, due to the relatively poor accuracy and low energy of a short barreled BP pistol;

2) Second reaction was that there will probably only be a handful of people who would even try it in the first place, and odds are they would be those people already well involved with traditional muzzleloading rifles to begin with...and would take up the BP pistol challenge with full knowledge of its limitations through association with rifles, have a relatively good skill level, know they have to use large calibers like .62/.69cal and limit shots to 15-20yds,  etc...of those few, maybe some deer might be killed.


Thoughts?

[hunter58]

I have been hunting with a muzzle loading handgun in Indiana since it was legalized. True there are limitations, no different than archery. Lots of practice is required. One shot kills on all the deer I have taken with a handgun. Longest distant, 50 yards. It's not for everyone. For me it's more rewarding of a hunt, and at all times I respect the animal and will pass if the shot is not perfect. As you mentioned in you message I have 38 years of experience with the muzzle loading rifle.

[Saloon slug]

Nice lookin shooter there Hunter58.

Personal I think I am a long way from doing it my self. But I saw it on the show and was curious as to how popular it was. I noticed in your pic that you have some conicals in the display what sort of load are you using?

[hunter58]

Not many folks use a ML pistol to hunt with. This is one of four that I own and use. Been using handguns to hunt with for 20 years and find it a real challenge. I average 15 to 20 pounds of black powder at the range each year for the past six years. Allot of range time. The load used in the pistol shown : 410gr conical with 95gr of fffg Swiss black powder.

[Hairtrigger]

I purchased a Traditions 50 cal handgun a year ago and would not hesitate to use it if would be legal where I hunt deer. It had been back to Traditions for some work and they made the trigger very nice for an inexpensive pistol. That little gun is surprisingly accurate.

[beerbelly]

I have a Great Plains pistol (cap Lock) that I carry as a back up when deer hunting. I have only try-ed to use it once. Had a small doe with in 25 yards of me. There was no way I was going to get my long gun around for a shot. I had to soot through the forks of a small sapling out about 15 yards. Well I shot about a half inch to the right hit the sapling and the deer went it own way unharmed. LOL
  I don't think with my level of shooting and eye-sight I would try a shot from any further off.
                                      Beerbelly

[crow_feather]

I understood that the rifling of a ML pistol was a lot faster than it's rifle counterpart.  Thus, any hot load has the possibility of striping the patch or bullet.  No trapper would use a pistol to take meat if he had a rifle with him, because he couldn't afford to waste lead, powder, or meat.  Hunting ethics requires a clean, quick, painless kill. A person who would "give it a try", or "see if it could be done" doesn't sound as if they are sure of that type of kill.

[wgr]

not a thing wrong with hunting with a muzzle  loading  hand gun. most of the guys i hunt with here in southern indiana use muzzle loaders . some of us have been talking about getting hand guns and hunting with them  what part of indiana you in hunter

[longcaribiner]

I routinely kill groundhogs with my Ruger Old Army.  Absolutely no reason why such can't be carried as a back up.  Further, where the properly loaded and used by a person who has practiced and knows what it can do, I see no reason why a deer can't be taken responsibly. 

If a 44-40 can be used for deer, why not a 44 cal round ball and 40 grains of powder.  Pa is requiring a minimum of 50 cal and a certain bullet weight or more.  And our three week late season is for flintlock ignition only.   Not many 50 cal or greater flint pistols available.

It sure isn't a 200 yd proposition, but most deer are shot at 30 yds or under in PA. 

I have seen people who can shoot five shoot groups at 50 yds with a flint pistol that I would be proud to have shot with a rifle.   

Yes some pistols have faster twist rifling.  Most run around 28 to 36 inch twists, except the inline pistols.  Some have the usual round ball rifle twists.   At short distances rifling really doesn't matter much in a pistol.  Shoving 90 grains of powder into a 10 inch pistol barrel is just a waste of powder that won't be burned before the ball or bullet leaves the muzzle.  As a result, it is hard to get so much velocity within the barrel that the PRB strips through the rifling. 

[crow_feather]

Since the strip is usually when the ball begins it's travel, I have to disagree.  I do agree that the time of the burn is short, and that is why many pistol shooters use 3f no matter what caliber being shot - short of 58.  It is nice to have a ball travel through the animal shot, it helps with the blood trail.  I don't believe that a pistol will do that.  As for a 44 vs. a 44-40 the 44-40 has a bigger slug and a longer barrel length.  Many deer are killed with a 22 long rifle.  It doesn't mean that it should be allowed, as many hunters will not stay within the kill parameters of the bullet.  Same with the muzzle loading pistol.  Sure, those in the know can do it - but it opens up the hunt to everyone who decides to try that pistol thingie.

[longcaribiner]

A 44-40 pistol barrel is no longer than a muzzleloader barrel.   And the 220 grain bullets used in the 44-40 aren't really any different than a 250 grain muzzleloader bullet.   In the short distances, a round ball comes out faster and doesn't lose that much velocity at 30 yds anyway.  Sure if yer talkin 100 yds.  However, a 490 or 535 PRB packs a fair wallop and makes a big bloody hole.  Or for that matter a minnie ball or modern conical.  There some folks who shouldn't be permitted to hunt deer with a 30.06.  Few who carry a pistol into the woods will use it as their "first shot" gun anyway.  Mostly they will be back up for second shots, when and if needed.

And, I have loaded very short soft lead 45-70 bullets and 455 Webley bullets in my Ruger Old Army.  With great results.  The 455 wad cutters are only a half inch long and really displace little room that powder would have held in the chamber, and they weigh in around 200 grains. 

It isn't always the energy of the ball or bullet. or hydroshock.  A 54 caliber hole is a shock inducing wound whether 6 inches deep or pass through.   In the book Treasure Island, Long John entrusted a pistol to Master Hawkins, telling him that a wee charge of powder and a large ball is the way to kill a man. 

In the War of Northern Aggression, 60 grains of powder and a 577 PRB were considered by most of the world's armies as lethal on humans out to several hundred yards.  Black powder Ballistics really haven't changed in 150 yrs.

[crow_feather]

I will agree with most of your post, (I think that BP has improved which has changed the ballistics somewhat per grain of powder)

However, I still feel that not all people will hold their shots at 30 yards.  Many people will shoot 100 yards at a deer with whatever their holding as a weapon.  It is the nature of the beast.  They are out there to kill something, they will try.  Sure, they will also shoot 1,000 yards with a 30-06, I just hate to give them another method of wounding animals.

Best of luck on your hunts this year
C F

[cascadedad]

Let's just keep everyone from hunting because there is ALWAYS going to be someone out there that will break a law or make an unethical shot.  After all, it's the nature of the beast.  

[PeashooterJoe]

I bought a 3rd model dragoon just for Deer hunting this year. Last year  I killed a 150 hog with my Ruger Old Army and and took it with me Deer hunting as a backup just in case. The 3rd model has lots of potential if my part is done, I  will not take a shot over 35 yards with it. By the way it has about a 5" to 6" spread at 60 yards.There is a lot of work that goes into working up a accurate load. I have been using a handgun for about 30 years for hunting, large and small game. Good Hunting..