affordable sabot/bullet combo - lead?

[nkhunter]

Hello all, I'm new here but have been reading GBO for a few years now. My question is two part - I have ready many good things about TC cheap shot sabot/lead bullet combo. What kind of bullet do they use for their cheap shot combo? cast? swaged? would any good .429 semi wadcutter mimic my xtp loads? I presently use harvester crush ribs and xtp 250 .452 bullets which are a great combo in my NEF side kick.
2nd part of question; Just picked up a NEF huntsman youth model for my wife and kids. It seems to also like the 250 gr xtp's and 240 xtp's with 70 grains of AAP or 60 gr of 777. I'd like the kids to shoot the heck out of it before ohio's youth season and am thinking about a 180 grain  or 200 grain bullet for better velocity and less kick. So - is this too light a bullet? Would all lead be a better application of this weight and velocity?
Thanks ahead for any responses.
Matt

[Chuck White]

Matt
I use a 240 grain SWC in a T/C Black Mag Sabot in my TC Encore!

I size the cast bullet to .427 and use 2 Pyrodex 50 gr equiv. pellets.

These bullets are pure Wheel-Weights!

They are easy to load.

I can keep them inside of 2 inches at 100 yards!

[nkhunter]

How does the all lead bullet perform on game? I've heard it's as good if not better than xtp's

[Chuck White]

I've never recovered one from a deer!
They go all the way through!

Usually the exit hole (assuming a "in the ribs" hit) is usually about the size of a dime.


NOTE: I forgot to mention in my first post that I don't put any lube on the bullet.
It could possibly stick to the sabot and that could throw your accuracy off!

[Double 30]

The T/C cheap shots are superb in all load levels. Only recovered 2. One was a shoulder shot on a 180 lb 8 pt ( 75 yard shot with 40gr 3f T7 muzzle velocity 1350 fps) and the other was a 5 yard quartering shot on a doe. Same load and it wound up under the hide in front of the shoulder. They are very accurate and above all inexpensive.Last year I hammered a doe at 50 yards with a Cheap shot launched by 70 grains of 3f T7( 1650 fps). It was a quartering to shot and she reared up fell over backward and kicked herself in a circle and gave it up.The exit hole was a 4x5 inch  and she coughed out a handful of lung through it. My daughter hit a doe with the 40 grain charge at 115 yards and the doe went 30ft and died. I'm sold on the Cheap Shot and if I could use nothing else on deer or black bear I'd be very happy. As a side note regarding cast bullets and sabots, I cast some .429's and .452's in pure lead and found that the bullets obturate in the sabots and show fins corresponding to the slots in the sabot petals! The 429's actually measured .478 across the fins.Accuracy was poor compared to other loads. Apparently a harder alloy is needed for this application!

[Semisane]

These bullets are pure Wheel-Weights!

Usually the exit hole (assuming a "in the ribs" hit) is usually about the size of a dime.

I believe you should try casting in pure lead.  You're not getting any expansion with wheel weights.  I tried shooting hardened 250 grain Wide Flat Nose bullets out of my 41 Mag Blackhawk at muzzle loader velocities and they just punched all the way through a deer on a mid-chest shot.  Killed them - but they sure ran a long way first.  With hard bullets, you need to use shoulder break-down shots to drop them quick - a shot I dislike.  Pure lead expands well with a heart/lung shot and gives you a much larger exit hole and quicker bleed out.

[demented]

As Double 30 says, the Cheap Shots are great!  I originally bought them for practice and for sighting in since the cost was much less than jacketed.  I decided to actually try them for deer and much to my surprise, they can't be beat.  My hunting is limited to 100 yards, if they will work past this range, I'm not sure

[nkhunter]

I'm wondering if the "cheap shots" are actually Hornady  cast swc hollow points? Should those expand on lung shots?  Thanks for all the input guys, this was the info I was looking for. I guess I'd have to wipe off the lube from hornad cast bullets, but that's no big deal.

[gt2003]

How does the all lead bullet perform on game? I've heard it's as good if not better than xtp's

nkhunter, you may have read my experiences, but if not, here ya go.....I muzzleloader hunted for about 3 years.  I've got a knight wolverine and was shooting a 300 grain hornady xtp bullet and 90 grains of pyrodex rs powder.  The load was unbelievably accurate.  I shot 3-4 deer and never found any of them.  I could find small drops of blood for 20-30 yds, then nothing, even getting down on my hands and knees to look.  I knew I was hitting the deer but the bullets weren't doing their job.  I absolutely loved muzzleloader hunting but vowed to give it up if I lost another deer, I was at the point of just being sick over it.  I got advice here or on realtree.com to try the precision rifle, pure lead bullet.  I went down from a 300 grain bullet to a 220 grain precision rifle dead center bullet with 80 grains of 777 powder.  I've shot 3 deer since then, 2 have dropped in their tracks and one ran directly toward me, maybe 50 yds at the most spewing blood everywhere.  She dropped just underneath my stand.  The bullets are not the cheapest (although they've got some that are fairly cheap that I'm sure will do the job, keith nose hollow point etc) but they have literally saved my muzzleloading career.  I also decreased the bullet size which significantly reduced recoil.  Check out their website, www.prbullet.com and see what they have to offer.  Really anything in their line should do the job.  I'm totally sold on all lead bullets.  They've got a bullet selection chart that will give you ideas of what bullets to shoot depending on the twist of your barrel.  I hope you will be as impressed as I have been.  Good luck, Greg