Author Topic: Giving up on Handi (Read 1519 times)

daddywpb · « **on:** September 09, 2007, 02:53:42 PM »

I can't get my 22-250 bull barrel Handi to shoot. I have read all of the hints in the FAQ section and tried them all, made sure the barrel doesn't touch the forearm, rubber washer under the forearm screw, etc., etc., etc.,. WWB 40 grain ammo shoots into about 3" at 50 yards, my 40 grain handloads with Berger bullets and Varget into about 2" at 50 yards. If I take the gun apart to clean, when I put it back togeather it shoots to a different POI. 100 yard groups are about an inch bigger. 200 yard groups look more like a shotgun pattern. I've tried 40, 45 50 and 55 grain bullets, Berger and V-max - nothing works. Scope rings are tight and all screws are put on with Loktite. Simmons scope is from another rifle and has proven itself in the past. I'm not looking for benchrest accuracy here, just minute of coyote. Going to trade it on something at the next gun show just to get rid of it. It was my first, and last, Handi and I had high hopes, but...

Any last minute advise?

cwlongshot · « **Reply #1 on:** September 09, 2007, 03:11:15 PM »

Every barrel is different...some shoot well some don't.

My brother once had a Weatherby that wouldn't shoot...think he would never buy another one? My ol' man once bought a Chevy van. Damn thing was such a lemon it had a yellow strip. Really it did!! ...think they would never buy another one??

We live in an imperfect world, nice thing is there is always room for improvement!!

Take it for what its worth. How about you send it back to NEF and see what they say?

JMHO,
CW

nomosendero · « **Reply #2 on:** September 09, 2007, 03:23:00 PM »

I DO understand. Some will shoot & some won't, no matter what you do. I am not going to ask about the obvious stuff, if someone knows enough to load up some Bergers, he knows that stuff. Sorry about your bad fortunes.

If it were shooting these groups at 100 yards, I might think you could tune it somewhat, but at 50 it sounds bad indeed. I agree you should send it back.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #3 on:** September 09, 2007, 03:50:51 PM »

send it back and see what they can do, it's free except for shipping and you might be able to work out something on that depending on how old the gun is. You have already been given good advise here, the factory would most llikely even send you a new barrel if you asked nicely, they are great that way....<><....

poncaguy · « **Reply #4 on:** September 09, 2007, 04:05:19 PM »

I have the bull barrel 22-250 that I put the Choate Varmit stock on, shoots 3/4" groups..................

lik2hunt · « **Reply #5 on:** September 09, 2007, 04:11:23 PM »

The 22-250 is not known to be one of the more accurate or desirable Handis to have. Try a .223 or 22 Hornet for coyotes. Even the .243 bull barrel in either the 22" length or 24" would give you velocities rivaling the 22-250 with far better accuracy, and each shoot the smaller bullet sizes exceptionally well.
I could have quit on the Handis after my first experience with them also, believe me, it was a nightmare that ended with H&R actually refunding me the cost of a 25-06 Ultra and extra .223 barrel. I stuck with them and went with the ones notorious for accuracy and have had success since........well with the exception of a 7x64 Brenneke........right Tim.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #6 on:** September 09, 2007, 05:30:44 PM »

That Brenneke shoots very well, I'll never get rid of it, in fact, it makes me wonder why you sold it to me!!

Tim

Mac11700 · « **Reply #7 on:** September 09, 2007, 06:31:22 PM »

Quote

If I take the gun apart to clean, when I put it back togeather it shoots to a different POI.

Man...Where I have heard this before...

Check your crown for damage...Check your lock up by smoking the latch...to see if it is consistent...or to see if it is even all the way across...Check you frame barrel gap with a feeler gauge set...Check your head space on a couple new unfired shells...see if the shell is dropping below flush of the chamber mouth...If any one of these...send it back in after talking to the C/S department at NEF...Ask to talk to Jennifer or Gordon...specifically...tell them exactly what you have done and what you have found...

It doesn't matter if you have a 10,000 dollar rifle...sometimes you can get a flaky barrel...it happens...If there is something wrong with it...they will find it...and make good on it...They always have...It's a pain...but...it does happen...

Mac

mitchell · « **Reply #8 on:** September 09, 2007, 06:51:16 PM »

Quote from: lik2hunt on September 09, 2007, 04:11:23 PM

would give you velocities rivaling the 22-250

did you say rivaling?

? the 243 with 55's will blow the 22-250 out of the water your talkin 4k man

lik2hunt · « **Reply #9 on:** September 10, 2007, 01:29:33 AM »

Quote

That Brenneke shoots very well, I'll never get rid of it, in fact, it makes me wonder why you sold it to me!!

Tim

Different strokes........different strokes my friend. I didn't have the patience, the want to , nor the time to spend with it to get it to where you have. Glad it has proved to be a beneficial purchase for ya, everybody prospers!

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #10 on:** September 10, 2007, 03:07:54 AM »

I was very disappointed with my .223 Ultra Varmint and .38-55 Target. I picked up a Savage 11 in .223 and am very pleased with it. I was going to get a Stevens 200 for $259, but the Savage with the Accu-Trigger was only $319. The point is that a Stevens is a much better gun at about the same price as a Handi.

I played enough with the .223 to get acceptable groups, but could not get them in the same place twice.

I am keeping my .22 Hornet Topper and 20 Ga. Ultra-Slug. A .44 mag. might be possible in the near future.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #11 on:** September 10, 2007, 05:48:37 AM »

Quote

The point is that a Stevens is a much better gun at about the same price as a Handi.

B.S.

I get real sick & tired of hearing this crock...The Stevens rifle is the bottom of the barrel Savages...The stocks are junk...the triggers are crappy...and most have bigger problems than any Handi I have ever seen...not to mention actually try getting things fixed on them from Savage if you have a problem....oh sure...they are better alright...BULL...Most folks that choose a single shot is because this is what they want...they want to be able to easily swap barrels out and have something different...by just loosening 1 screw...instead of having to have a barrel vise and a special wrench...and a no-go gauge...Price isn't the only reason we choose single shots...

To say that bottom of the wrung bolt action rifle is better than a single shot tells me you really know absolutely nothing about these Handis...or you haven't learned to appreciate the differences...One of the reason folks choose single shots to begin with...is for the simplicity of the rifle...another is the feel & balance...This is something something no-bolt gun can ever match...I went the "Savage" route...and tried one of the better models..a Savage 308 FP to be exact...The reason I went with the FP is because after looking thru over a bakers dozen of the new cheap Stevens...I saw more problems with them than I ever saw with any Handi produced...I wound up trading the Savage for a bolt gun that met my expectations of a bolt gun...a Weatherby Sub-MOA...While the price may be similar...the rifle is not...Time after time on every forum I have seen the praises of these so-called better buys...and the first thing folks do with them is to replace the recoil lug...bed the action or change the stocks out on them to make them more stable...Then they add a Accu-trigger...and so on and so on...Add the price of the trigger & stock...and you have a much higher priced rifle...

I'm not saying there are any Stevens that shoot exceptionally good...because there are...but...they cannot be compared to any of the single shots on the market because they are BOLT ACTIONS...They don't handle or feel like a single shot...and never will...so...comparing it to...or saying it's better...is a crock...I am also not saying there aren't some problems with the Handi's...because there are...They can be problematic at times...but...a simple phone call...and boxing it up and sending it in will 99.9% of the time net you a problem free rifle...Try that with Savage...and you will see...Oh yea...try this...try switching the barrel out in your camp next time you go...go from a 45-70 to a 30-06 in under a minute...or from a 223 to 30-06...opps...sorry...you can't...not only is this a long action & short action...but you can't get a 45-70 in them...nope...you sure can't...

No...sorry...the Stevens rifles aren't "better" than most Handi rifles...the only thing it has going for it over a Handi is that it is offered in a 7mm mag...and 300 Win Mag...and it is a repeater...Oh...one other thing...try trading it back in once you buy it...you will loose a-lot more money on the deal...than you ever will with any Handi...Same for any of the extras we put of the Handis as compared to any of the Savages...the extras & the rifles hold their value...Savages don't......One last thing...You may be perfectly happy with your Savage...but you didn't get a Stevens now did you...Most of what I have read about the current production Stevens...says the same thing...buy the more expensive Savage...

Mac

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #12 on:** September 10, 2007, 07:28:48 AM »

Boy, did I hit a sore spot or what? These are only rifles that we are discussing, not family members or trucks!

Sorry, to get back on track: My experience with Handi's has not been as good as expected. I had thought that I could take the rifles as purchased and use them as anticipated. My previous experience with single-shots was with Rugers, and I was very happy with the 2 that I had. With the .223, all I wanted to do was to get the rifle, work up a load, and go 'chuck hunting. That didn't happen because I did find a load that would group as well as I expected, but wouldn't repeat group placement. I prefer to spend the little free time that I have using the gun not screwing around with it.

As far as resale, a used Handi will retail for $130 to $150 around here. I don't know about the Stevens. From experience, I would think around $200.

The Handi will accept multiple barrels, but this requires fitting by the factory or the owner, if he is capable. You are out of luck with a Stevens, it is what it is, unless you want to pay what the gun costs originally to get it rebarrelled, and then you can't switch barrels. One thing that H&R could do is to make the barrels completely interchangeable so you don't have to send the action back.

The only reason I didn't get a Stevens was that the Savage was on close-out, otherwise I would have cost $100 more than the Stevens at that store. I did try the trigger of the Stevens and it was acceptable, although the accu-trigger was much better. I would not have bought the Stevens and put an after-market trigger on it.

Inrut24/7 · « **Reply #13 on:** September 10, 2007, 07:32:17 AM »

Quote from: daddywpb on September 09, 2007, 02:53:42 PM

I can't get my 22-250 bull barrel Handi to shoot. I have read all of the hints in the FAQ section and tried them all, made sure the barrel doesn't touch the forearm, rubber washer under the forearm screw, etc., etc., etc.,. WWB 40 grain ammo shoots into about 3" at 50 yards, my 40 grain handloads with Berger bullets and Varget into about 2" at 50 yards. If I take the gun apart to clean, when I put it back togeather it shoots to a different POI. 100 yard groups are about an inch bigger. 200 yard groups look more like a shotgun pattern. I've tried 40, 45 50 and 55 grain bullets, Berger and V-max - nothing works. Scope rings are tight and all screws are put on with Loktite. Simmons scope is from another rifle and has proven itself in the past. I'm not looking for benchrest accuracy here, just minute of coyote. Going to trade it on something at the next gun show just to get rid of it. It was my first, and last, Handi and I had high hopes, but... Any last minute advise?

You only mentioned using Varget, Did you try any other powders? your gun might not like varget and might shoot alot better with a different powder.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #14 on:** September 10, 2007, 07:56:22 AM »

Quote

Boy, did I hit a sore spot or what? These are only rifles that we are discussing, not family members or trucks!

Unfortunately it is what you said...and in the context of how you said it...that fans these flames...Here...we do take these rifles as seriously....as some do about their trucks..

Most 38-55 Targets leave a lot to be desired...although some have had great success with them...most have issues that need to be addressed at the factory.Not so with the 223's...Most groups shot by members here will rival those shot by some of the most expensive bolt guns around...

I am sorry if I seemed harsh...but...after many years of having to go thru the same type of arguments with others who try to compare 2 totally different rifles and make general statements as to the Stevens bolt gun being better...It is just second nature to me to react this way...

Most gun shops around here sell used Handi's for $200-$300 depending on caliber...and used Targets or Buff Classics go for much higher prices...The only discounted Handi's I have run across has been the Side Kick....rim fires or shotguns...never the CF calibers...and as you can see..there will always be some place that is discounting the higher priced Savages...because the dealer cost spread is lower than what they get for the Handi Rifles...This will mean a lower trade in value the minute you buy it...which is fine as long as you plan on keeping it...and dumping extra into to it...That kinda negates any price difference to me...

Mac

dw06 · « **Reply #15 on:** September 10, 2007, 09:15:36 AM »

You got some good advice daddywpb,I wouldn't give up yet,do as Mac said and call cs and talk to Jennifer or Gorden,be nice and explain the troubles and they will take good care of you.There customer service is great if you work with them.I'd ask about sending it back in exchange for a 223 barrel,unless you got to have a 22-250.I've had great luck with the 223.Good luck to ya and let us know how it works out!

daddywpb · « **Reply #16 on:** September 10, 2007, 12:12:44 PM »

I also tried IMR 4895 with the same results. I'm kind of in the same boat as woodchukhntr. I have read a lot on this forum about how accurate the Handi's are, and some of them may well be. I only have experience with one. But, I don't want to have to fiddle around with a rifle to get it to shoot well. A couple weeks ago my wife, probably tired of listening to me bitch about the Handi, bought me a Ruger Hawkeye in 22-250 at Bass Pro Shop. I took it to the range last weekend and it shot sub 1" groups at 100 yards with factory WWB ammo right out of the box. I'm guessing that it will probably do better than that with some careful reloading. That's my kind of rifle. Nothing personal with the Handi's - they just aren't for me.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #17 on:** September 10, 2007, 01:43:27 PM »

Quote from: daddywpb on September 10, 2007, 12:12:44 PM

I also tried IMR 4895 with the same results. I'm kind of in the same boat as woodchukhntr. I have read a lot on this forum about how accurate the Handi's are, and some of them may well be. I only have experience with one. But, I don't want to have to fiddle around with a rifle to get it to shoot well. A couple weeks ago my wife, probably tired of listening to me bitch about the Handi, bought me a Ruger Hawkeye in 22-250 at Bass Pro Shop. I took it to the range last weekend and it shot sub 1" groups at 100 yards with factory WWB ammo right out of the box. I'm guessing that it will probably do better than that with some careful reloading. That's my kind of rifle. Nothing personal with the Handi's - they just aren't for me.

I gotta tell ya. I know your gonna think I am just saying this but I am not it is the truth.

I have owned three Ruger Rifles, my father has had two and my brother one. Of mine and my fathers only mediocre accuracy was ever attained.

My 223 M77 was a 2-3" gun at 100.

My M77 7mm/08 was also a 2" gun at 100 but that was only with hand loads, factory where at best, 1 inch better. I worked on this one for over a year. i tried everything including "FREEZING IT"!

My M77 358 is a consistent 3" gun @ 100.

My fathers 308 M77 was better but even then only with hand loads. That would occasionally shoot inside 1.25. Mostly it was a 1.5-.75 gun @ 100

My fathers 22-250 was total crap. Wouldn't reliably shoot 6" groups at 100. Re-crowning and re leaving the for-end pressure made it better. He sold it in disgust.

My brother has the most accurate factory center fire gun I have ever seen. Its a new model, Stainless with that ugly Ruger skeletonized stock and a Leupold VXIII scope chambered in 270 Win. It will shoot almost anything into one hole groups. NO EXERATION, REALLY. Its uncanny and my brother is not the best of shooters. Time at the range is a waste of time and ammo if you ask him.

Ask enough people you will eventually hear everything. Glad you got a good one with you Hawkeye!!

CW

leadbutt · « **Reply #18 on:** September 10, 2007, 01:59:04 PM »

Fairly new to the Handi's myself , but have been shooting one for a long while now,sounds like good advice so far,only thing i could add would to be ,, drop a line to David White at his site and ask him, maybe he has another trick or two,he helped me with mine and he seems to really like them

Lost Okie · « **Reply #19 on:** September 10, 2007, 02:16:21 PM »

Not all is at it may seem. Handi's are like any other rifle.....sensitive....My 223 24" bull shot 2-3" groups at 100 yrds off a rest. I played with the rubber washer, tried a couple of other things...got to a consistent 2"....thats with a Nikon 4.5 x14 w/AO. Tried the Win white box, 2", tried others.....2" at best. Tried my hand loads, using several different powders and bullet weights.....course I enjoy the challenge, not everyone does. One day, in a rush to get to the range I threw together 20 rds using IMR 3031, 50 gr bullets, and a lee dipper.....wow and behold...1/2" groups....that was 2 yrs ago. Last week, still under 3/4" and that's the first time to the range since I moved from Indiana to NC.....
Follow their suggestions, then call customer service, they have always been helpful. Just as a side note, I have spent more money on other rifles for just as many problems..

Ireload2 · « **Reply #20 on:** September 11, 2007, 03:36:08 PM »

daddywpb,
Try this out.
Pull an unjacketed lead .22 rimfire bullet and put it on a hard surface and smack it with a hammer to squash it out a little bigger than your bore.
Get a brass or aluminum rod capable of pushing it though your barrel with out harming the barrel.
Clean the barrel well and the apply a light film of oil to it.

Push the slug through the bore slowly. See if you can detect any tight or rough spots. If you have any questions push another through.
Try it from both the breech and the muzzle. I had a much more expensive single shot that shot 18" groups. I found 2 tight spots in it.
I sent it back to the factory with 3 .45 caliber lead balls to let them try it. They rebarreled it and reblued it for no charge. They shot a test group with it and sent it back. It works great now.
If I had not sent that rifle back it would probably still be being traded around the country until everyone got to own it and shoot it at least once.