comander 9mm accuracy problems

[fffffg]

   Ive gotten a 9mm colt commander to try for a spell.. If i can get it to shoot i want it to match up with my  pre 1970 national match (that i bought new  off the shelf in college for 175 bucks  ... Everyone who has shot the old match has been impressed..  The commander has the same feel and likability, except it shoots like crap..  Reading the posts here, i feel this is the place to go with this problem..   I am a competent pistol shooter.... and this baby shoots pretty bad...  I took it apart after reading your posts here and  found a ridge on the rear top  of the back   lug on the barrel..  It looks like peening to me maybe .010  inch high?....  If i push down the barrel in the ejector port the barrel goes down 1/32- 1/16 inch  easily..   the firing pin is hitting welll off center of the primer and im thinking the barrel is not seating right in the lugs..   I want this gun, and i want it to shoot  reasonably,  not competition accuracy..  Where should i start if i really dont know how to evaulate this problem?...  Do i trust a local gunsmith or should i send it off?  What are  costs of moderate accurizing/ restoring..   I would like to tune it up, not customize it, and keep it colt....    dave 
         ................PS.. if i can switch parts temporarily and keep the old ones with the gun in a box, thats ok..  Like grips,  barrel or spring, bushing etc..  but i don't want to change the original gun parts permanently unless they are colt original parts..

[Lloyd Smale]

id guess your best bet would be a barrel and fitted bushing from an aftermarket vendor. Ive had two 9mm 1911 colts and if mine were any example 4 inch 25 yard groups are about the norm with them. I could get groups down to about 3 inch with load developement. The 9mms will shoot though as my sti trojan will shoot one inch all day long. Both of my colts were loose and sloppy like yours though. I would guess that colt makes them a little loose for reliablility and sacrifices accuracy in the trade. A 9mm 1911 has less recoil energy to runthe slide and requires a gun fit up pretty well to run reliably. My trojan runs a 8lb spring with the light loads it shoots and to run a spring that light in a 1911 the slide to frame fit has to be pretty precise. Just racking the slide on the trojan and you can tell. Its like its riding on ball bearings. Its a fine line with the 9mms. Ill give you an example. Theres a few guys that shoot ppc with me that bought springfields. Seems like they either get a tight gun thats accurate and isnt reliable or a loose gun that reliable but not accurate. This especially shows its face when trying to run light loads like i run in my trojan. The 9mm 1911s are a hoot to shoot but if it were me id step up to at least a trojan and maybe a les baer or stay away from them. No doubt your colt can be made to be as realiable and accuate as my gun but for the money its going to cost your better off to peddle it and buy one that runs out of the box. Or except the fact that your gun was made to shoot exceptable combat accuracy and leave it as is.

[Mikey]

fffffg:  The first thing I would do is to look for a cometent gunsmith locally who can properly fit the barrel to the slide, then she will shoot as accurately as she can.  Failing success in that corner I would follow Lloyd's advice and get a new barrel and bushing, which should do the trick for you.  Mikey.

[fffffg]

   I can try a barrel and bushing..  IM glad you mentioned the reliability issue..  I tell admirers of my national match,, "it will feed a tube of lipstick"  Its jamb rate is nill as i remember...  But my memory is less admirable.    4 inch group with ball ammo would be acceptable and a nice match to my  .45.....  the cammanders reliablity seems to be great, and that is one of the things i like about it..   What are some quality  barrel/bushing  vendors i can talk to and get prices?    thanks  dave

[Lloyd Smale]

go to brownels website. They have a good selection

[Mikey]

Go to Brownells as Lloyd advises.  I know they sell Ed Brown barrels and they are advertised as 'drop in' barrels that do not need gunsmithing.  I did just that for my full size Springfield 1911A1 and it immediately (1 magazine of ammo) closed up my group and brought it to poa. 

I would also recommend contacting Bar-Sto Barrels in southern Californika.  They make match barrels for 1911s and every one I have shot is pinpoint on the money.  HTH.  Mikey.

[fffffg]

  Thanks for all of your help..    Its hard for me to decide if i want to put up this much money for a gun that I think is cute, and will probably never see light once it hits the safe...  I wanted it to match my national match as a pair to leave to my oldest son who loves my Match .45....   The gun cost me 325, the barrel link, pin, bushing is about 200 dollars...  I was showing it to another pistol shooter a day ago and he said its heavy..  It does seem to weigh in simular  as my national match..   Maybe the 9mm commander has more internal metal on it compared to the .45 commander, making the 9mm heavy??   I own a 2nd hand shop, have an ffl, and i can shoot it as is, fix it up, or sell it.. im just weighing my options......     dave

[Flint]

There are two Commanders, the original was alloy framed and lighter of weight.  The barrel also comes in two flavors, full outside diameter (same as a 45), which is heavier, and the thinner diameter barrel and matching bushing, which, again, would be lighter.  The steel framed gun is the Combat Commander, and weighs almost as much as a full sized govt. model.

[fffffg]

  I finally decided to go the cheaper rout and have my local smith look at it..  then after talking to a .45 nut locally, he said i needed a longer link..  It sure made sence.......
Earlier     A  barrel maker, after i told him  about my loose barrel sliding down with finger pressure,  said his barrel would make it shoot 1 1/2 inch at 50 yards..  ...  If its a short  link why is a barrel maker trying to sell me a new barrel?..  the funny thing is browneslls said they had 3 oversize length links for about 4.00 each.... And they confimed it  very well may be the problem...   So is most of the accuracy being lost in most of these guns due to bushing and link fit, or are the new barrels really nessesary most of the time?...  ..dave

[Mikey]

Dave:  most factory barrels shoot much better than people imagine, and it is not uncommon to find a barrel with a minimal fit from the factory.  When they put it together with a link and a bushing, everything is tight enough to be within factory tolerances.  After you shoot the pistol for a while things begin to loosen up and a proper length link and a properly fit bushing is often all that is needed to fit the barrel to the slide correctly so that when she comes into battery there is a consistent fit between barrel and slide.

If this fella does not make his own barrels, and I sort of doubt he does, unless he is Irv Stone of Bar-Sto Barrels, all he will do is charge you top $ for someone elses new barrel and just fit it to your pistol - yet, you will have to go through the same process with a new barrel, so I would stick with your factory barrel and just have someone fit it properly to the slide.  JMTCW.  Mikey.

[fffffg]

  Thanks mikey.. Thats basically what im doing...  I dont even know if i like the commander yet...  Have you heard of the,   Darn i cant remember anything anymore,,  but it fits with the spring and is a shaft of some kind thats supposed to return the barrel to the same position each shot...  A competition shooter here says hes had very good luck with them and thier a no fit install, sold by brunells....  Dywer system  or something like that... dave...

[John Traveler]

You are referring to the Dwyer Group Gripper, designed by the late Dan Dwyer of San Diego, California.  He came up with this product over 35 years ago for the M1911, and it may be sold under a different name now.

It replaces the stock recoil spring guide and uses a spring-tensioned tab to push the barrel up into the slide locking grooves, minimizing barrel looseness after return to battery.  Simply installing this device frequently cuts group sizes in half.

HTH
John

[fffffg]

  I called brownells  today.  they said the group gripper can give great results, and they have them with the long guid rod for 9mm commander and standard .45s, ..   Cost is just under 50 bucks...  If i get one or two ill give you the before and after results... dave