Author Topic: 6mm Ackley Improved part 1  (Read 2721 times)

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Offline Mac11700

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6mm Ackley Improved part 1
« on: August 15, 2007, 07:59:40 AM »
Lonnie Hummel of Hornady sent me one of their new case forming dies to try out this week...I've been waiting on it for some time..They have ramped up production for them and are putting in place the additional machinery and personnel  to make these,so that not to put their normal die production behind schedule.You will need to purchase a good rubber mallet to form the cases...they don't supply them with the die set...Also...you will want to do this on a very solid surface and your press should be a good strong o-type press...since you will be hitting down on top of the die very hard..I have mine set up in my Hornady loc & load press with the loc & load die bushings..

It's a very well made die and shell holder that you can get..and looks like this...





What you do is set this die up as you would any other reloading die in your press...slide in the shell holder which is perfectly flat & solid on the bottom..Prime your case with a used spent primer( now you have a use for them.. ;) :D ) Fill the case completely up with plain water to the case mouth...Pull the ram out of the die..it slides in & out easily...Slide the water filled case in the shell holder being careful as to not spill any of the water...You want the case dry & oil free...so don't use any kind of grease or lubricant on them...

Now comes the fun part...You slide the ram into the top of the press.Put a small rag around the stem as I have here..before hitting it to catch the very small amount of water coming out of it...You will want to with it dry after usage...



You then take your rubber mallet and hit it very firmly on top a few times...Remove the case...and take a look...If you have hit it hard enough...your case will have expanded to the desired amount..If not...it will look very Weatherby like with the shoulders slightly rounded...like this..

The unfinished case is on the left...and the perfectly formed case is on the right..



It may take a few tries to get it right...but isn't very difficult at all...Here's a picture of a 243...a 6mm...and a 6mm AI...You can see the difference between all 3...



My cases measure out within .002" on the body & neck...and comes up a little short on the neck length...but...since I don't have the 243 barrel re chambered yet...won't really matter a lot...We can set the final dimensions of it when it gets re chambered..I was forming these out of new bulk Winchester 6mm cases...All that is left to do is to run the case thru a full length die set if needed to adjust the shoulder bump...but Lonnie has told me that that can be accomplished to within shooting specs with the forming die. He has used this die and formed them...and shot at several Benchrest competitions successfully...

So...the only other thing I have to do is to get over to the other side of the state and let Chris Mathews rechamber my 243 Elite barrel in the next 2 weeks...I already have the reamer from Dave Kiff of Pacific which is what the die was made off of...You can send Hornady a couple of fired cases or a set of prints as I did to make your dies for you...Cost of the die is about $132.00 and the full length 2 die set is $109.0...Not bad for a full custom set up...and they can do this for any wild cat  from 22 cal up...including all of the Gibbs line too...and will save all the fire forming to get the case right. They can do these in just about any configuration you would want...If your interested...call Lonnie at Hornady...1-800-338-3220 and press 0 for operator

Part 2 in a few weeks...

Mac 

You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline nomosendero

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Re: 6mm Ackley Improved part 1
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2007, 08:45:11 AM »
Looks very good Mac. That case will sure be a big boost over the 243, as the Sierra manual clearly illustrates. Should be interesting with a 105 A-Max along with other slugs. I am glad you are going ahead with this, I will probably do so as well if CVA has the good sense to introduce a 26" Varmit tube. 
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 6mm Ackley Improved part 1
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2007, 10:27:03 AM »
Cool 8), lookiing forward to part 2!! ;)

Tim
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: 6mm Ackley Improved part 1
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2007, 10:44:56 AM »
I assume your rationale for this is that you do not have a TRUE AI chamber and therefore can't just fire form the cases in the chamber?


Bill aka the Graybeard
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Offline Mac11700

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Re: 6mm Ackley Improved part 1
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2007, 06:46:14 PM »
I assume your rationale for this is that you do not have a TRUE AI chamber and therefore can't just fire form the cases in the chamber?

No...my chamber hasn't been cut as of yet...This die was made from the prints Dave Kiff sent me of my reamer he made for me..My rationale is multi-purpose...but it is also inclusive of what you think for those who do have dimensionally different chambers that have been rechambered...A couple of fired cases sent to Hornady...and they can have a complete set up for not only forming the cases...but for reloading them as well...They would have a complete custom set up for substantially less than any thing available from any other die maker....The days of having to have 3 or 4 forming die sets is past...1 die to accomplish that...

When Lonnie told me about this die set last year..I specifically ask him if it would work well..with a break action single shot type rifle...My reasoning at that time...to him...was for the NEF Handi rifles that had ejectors in them..and with their lack of having a captive extractor like the T/C's have.Being so...the difficulty of doing some not only mild loaded wildcats like my 6mm AI...but also of some of the more progressive wildcats available...like a 30-06 Gibbs...to keep from having any case head separations with it..Also many reloaders don't have a place at home to properly fire form cases.I know the trouble of this...and having to travel a long way just to normally shoot is a royal pain...let alone just to fire form some cases... This die eliminates these 2 problems and much more...It is also beneficial to all reloaders of wild cats in all type actions... because... no longer does a person have to worry about using any pistol powder and creme of wheat...nor do they have to load & jam the bullets into the rifling..nor do they have to size up then resize down forming a false shoulder...In addition...instead of burning extra powder & primers and time...not to mention the extra wear & tear on the rifle being loaded for...and the the wear on the brass being shot.....a person can now form his new case to the dimensions of his chamber and immediately start load development with it...

The way I see it...this die will pay for it self very quickly for some...and slower for others...Most will depend on how much it is used...Not every body will see the need to use it...since most true Ackley's can be formed by shooting factory ammo thru it...I went with the 6mm AI because of my existing chamber...it's a minimum spec'd chamber to begin with on my 243 CVA Optima Elite..and in this chambering will clean it up nicely...and give me a worth while performance gain.I also just like the round and thought it would be a minimal cost to have it done...Lonnie thought so as well...While I am doing it with the CVA's this time around....I do think I might be doing a 30 Gibbs in a Handi fairly soon...and that will be in a re-bored 25-06 barrel...

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline Mac11700

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Re: 6mm Ackley Improved part 1
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2007, 07:34:38 AM »

I'll be heading over to Chris Mathews shop Friday of next week on the 24th...http://longshotriflesllc.com/indexjoe.html..So...I'll have some pics of the chambering process and him to share with everyone...I am really excited to get this going...it's been almost a year in the making... ;D...He does some pretty darn good work from what I have read...http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek064.html...and comes highly recommended by the folks at Hornady...so...stay tuned ;)

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline Mac11700

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Re: 6mm Ackley Improved part 1
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2007, 08:29:14 AM »


I just tried a little experiment with this case forming die...I wanted to see how much I could move a shoulder forward on a case...so...I took a new Winchester 243 case..and tried it in it...Here's the results...left to right...243 Winchester...243 case reformed to 6mm AI..Winchester 6mm ...6mm reformed to 6mm AI...all cases are new unfired...As with any reforming of the cases..the neck will get shorter..and I wouldn't use the 243 to form the cases any ways...I just wanted to see how the shoulder turned out... ;)



You can see the difference...it defiantly moves the shoulder forward and expand the body.. ;D

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline stimpylu32

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Re: 6mm Ackley Improved part 1
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2007, 11:20:36 AM »
Mac

I see the info that you gave me on the phone is in progress so that .224 R&C Max handi i was planning may happen a lot faster than i thought .

Now to get on the phone and get the ball rolling .  ;)

stimpy
Deceased June 17, 2015


:D If i can,t stop it with 6 it can,t be stopped

Offline Mac11700

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Re: 6mm Ackley Improved part 1
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2007, 06:39:10 PM »


Cool... 8)

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline georgeld

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Re: 6mm Ackley Improved part 1
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2007, 03:34:53 PM »
Wow!  That's slick!

How about laying all the parts  out and taking a picture of the whole business?

Now if there was an easy way to neck larger necks down to something small
the .17's in anything would really take off.

Mac, thank you for explaining it all so well.  Seems you covered just about all the
arguments.

George
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It's about Control, join the NRA today!!"

Offline Mac11700

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Re: 6mm Ackley Improved part 1
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2007, 07:57:50 PM »


I did...I have it in a Loc & Load die bushing for my Loc & Load press...


This is all there is to it...It looks like most other dies and has the same threads on it...You set it up in any press just like regular dies as well...It's that simple...The shell holder has a solid bottom...no primer hole in it...that's the difference between it & a regular shell holder...

Unfortunately...they aren't doing any calibers below a 22...so...no 20's or 17's...

Mac

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Offline CapoWard

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Re: 6mm Ackley Improved part 1
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2007, 09:31:44 AM »
As the cases are being formed by pressure, could the cases be formed using a hydraulic press rather than by using the rubber mallet?

Offline Mac11700

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Re: 6mm Ackley Improved part 1
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2007, 11:53:37 AM »


They could...but not with these dies..they aren't set up that way..They were trying to make them so you could...but ran into some complications with them...You can give Lonnie at call at Hornady and discuss it with him..

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...