Author Topic: cannons in Savannah, GA? (Read 1800 times)

Don Krag · « **on:** September 17, 2007, 08:58:15 AM »

I'll be in Savannah, GA from the 23-27th. I'm not sure how much "free" time I'll have, but I'm sure there must be some sort of park with cannons and such out there. Anyone been there that could recommend some artillery-related sights?

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #1 on:** September 17, 2007, 09:43:29 AM »

When in Savannah, GA be sure you at least go to Fort Pulaski on Cockspur Island about 15 miles east of the city. They have a a variety of artillery there including the brand new 30 Pdr Parrott rifle reproduction which they fire on a regular basis. Extensive battle damage remains to this day from the 1862 investment of that Confederate stronghold. Mike and I have been there 4 times in the past 5 years. Also, there is Old Ft. Jackson about five mile east of the city, also on the Savannah River. A few interesting cannon here and also a unique second system fort. Robert E. Lee was almost killed here before the war started as he and other US Army officers observed a test firing of a large Columbiad cannon. It blew up and a very large piece of it went sailing over Lee's head and into the swamp beyond! That piece has been found and is there on display today.
Also is Ft. McAllister which is about 15 to 20 miles south of the city. Many artillery artifacts are found there and a beautifully preserved earthwork fort. Federal Navy monitors on the Ogeechee River pounded this fort unmercifully on seven separate occasions, but could not subdue it. It finally fell after Sherman's troops assaulted it in December of 1864. Excellent displays of the artilleryman's art are featured there as well as a large supply of original artillery shells and bolts.

Savannah is worth every second of your spare time! We really like Charleston, SC and Savannah, GA equally!!

Regards,

Tracy and Mike

Double D · « **Reply #2 on:** September 17, 2007, 09:59:48 AM »

What the Sea Coast Guys siad!!! Pulaski and McAllister not to be missed. Awesome guns there!!!
If you see my kid tell him hello?

Max Caliber · « **Reply #3 on:** September 17, 2007, 10:06:12 AM »

There are two very fine bronze field guns, one French, one English, mounted on Civil War type carriages that were presented to the Chatham Artillery by George Washington on display outside near the courthouse. There are several iron guns on display around the town.

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #4 on:** September 17, 2007, 02:25:27 PM »

Listen to Max Caliber. Living where he does, he has a much better idea of what there is in this city than we do. From our journal of our last visit in 2005 we believe that you can find the bronze guns on Bay Street between Drayton and Bull Streets. While in that vicinity be sure take a close look at the two early 19th century 24 Pdr. seacoast guns which flank the entrance of the main building of the Savannah School of Art and Design located at 341 Bull Street. The Artilleryman magazine had an interesting article on these guns several years back.

Have a good trip!

Mike and Tracy

Don Krag · « **Reply #5 on:** September 18, 2007, 01:44:21 PM »

I've been checking out the national parks for the forts listed. I really, really hope I can make it over to Ft Pulaski. Unfortunately, they all seem to close at 5 pm now. I'm guessing our clients would be a bit miffed if I disappeared for a half-day on them.

The more I look at all the cool parks, the more I think I need to take a road trip in the not too distant future! I need to find some more clients over there so I can take a long week...without the bosses.

Double D · « **Reply #6 on:** September 18, 2007, 05:15:37 PM »

Get the brochures and kinda leave them out during a break and maybe the client will get the hint and take you....what do you have to lose.

GGaskill · « **Reply #7 on:** September 18, 2007, 09:13:01 PM »

Or you can take the client.

Don Krag · « **Reply #8 on:** September 19, 2007, 01:31:03 PM »

I'm teaching a basic radiation safety course and a radiation detection statistics course M-Thurs. I need to relate cannon fire to counting statistics...or find some natural ore deposits in one of the parks and call it a field trip for class credit.

Although, I'm guessing most of the attendees would probably rather look at cannons than learn statistics!

Double D · « **Reply #9 on:** September 19, 2007, 04:57:57 PM »

Don,

You need to determine if the NORM at Ft Pulaski is emitting from the Brick and Mortar or the Iron guns. Gather up your PRD's and RIID and get out there and find out.

Don Krag · « **Reply #10 on:** September 19, 2007, 07:08:24 PM »

Well....it is pretty close to the Savannah River Project and someone ought to check out the environmental levels.

Don Krag · « **Reply #11 on:** September 23, 2007, 03:53:42 PM »

As luck would have it, they have a "night out" scheduled for wed 5pm -9:30pm.....and guess where! Ft Pulaski! They have the center reserved for the evening for a special opening for the conference group. Too Cool!

GGaskill · « **Reply #12 on:** September 23, 2007, 07:22:34 PM »

Talk about good luck.

Div Arty · « **Reply #13 on:** September 25, 2007, 02:25:45 PM »

Ah! Blackpowder Mortar and Cannon Tour Guide. What a thread. This is just what I was looking for. In January, my wife and I will be spending a week in Orlando, Florida. After that a week or so traveling up the coast to Norfolk, Virginia. I could sure use some tips as to spots to stop at. I am checking out Savanna and Charleston as suggested by Tracy, Mike and DD. Might have to see some of the plantation homes also but don't want to stray far from the coast.
Thank's Don Krag for bringing it up. Hope you made out well on your trip.
Ron

Don Krag · « **Reply #14 on:** September 25, 2007, 03:38:51 PM »

Turns out it's Ft Jackson we're going to, not Pulaski. But, they've arranged to have a battle demo and to fire the 24 lb cannon while we're there. I looked it up on-line and there's some really neat mountings for the seacoast cannon there. I'll be sure and get some good pics.

Double D · « **Reply #15 on:** September 25, 2007, 04:56:54 PM »

Quote from: Div Arty on September 25, 2007, 02:25:45 PM

Ah! Blackpowder Mortar and Cannon Tour Guide. What a thread. This is just what I was looking for. In January, my wife and I will be spending a week in Orlando, Florida. After that a week or so traveling up the coast to Norfolk, Virginia. I could sure use some tips as to spots to stop at. I am checking out Savanna and Charleston as suggested by Tracy, Mike and DD. Might have to see some of the plantation homes also but don't want to stray far from the coast.
Thank's Don Krag for bringing it up. Hope you made out well on your trip.
Ron

Don, I don't think you will be disapointed in Ft Jackson. But You should plan an extended trip later to the area. Ft McAlester and For Pulaski are must see. Down off Brunswick are some other parks and installations with cannon from earlier periods. Then there is of course the must see St Augustine just over the line in Florida. Wives will ike the colonial shope you will like the forts...awesome place.

Don Krag · « **Reply #16 on:** September 27, 2007, 02:27:40 PM »

Well, that was the best "night out" I have ever been to at a conference...and not just because I love artillery. We were welcomed by a dozen or so soldiers with flute and drums at the side. Piles of oysters in the shell awaited us....buckets full of huge cajun spiced boiled shrimp, broiled chicken, and all the good ol' southern sides. We dined under the flags, stars and aircraft-sized mosquitoes! They fired off the 32 lb model 1824 seacoast cannon for us. I now have un-cureable cannon envy!

They were very accommodating to some of my requests. I went around taking digital pics of all the cannons, then made rubbings of the markings to frame with the pics here at the house. Some of the rubbings required climbing on the cannon! They just laughed and said "go ahead". It'll be a day or two before I get all the pics edited and uploaded, but here's a quick view of a couple muzzle rubbings from a pair of bronze cannon in Jasper Park right across the street from the art school.

Kind of funny story about these...I was trying to find time to look for the art school and the bronze cannon ya'll had listed earlier. I went out with the adress finally, looked up and realized that the Hilton's address was 310 Bull. Sure enough, I look to the rear of the hotel and I spot the cannon on the door frames of the art school. I go take some pics and get ready to hike over to Bay st, but as I turn around, the bronze ones are now facing me 50 feet away! Hah! Made it real easy. I drug my boss out to help me do the rubbings.

Double D · « **Reply #17 on:** September 27, 2007, 04:23:41 PM »

See we told ya!!!

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #18 on:** September 27, 2007, 04:42:09 PM »

Wow, sounds like you were afforded the royal treatment, Don. We sure are glad that it all worked out so well. Great looking rubbings from those bronze field guns too! How did you like that 9" Dahlgren Shell Gun on the barbette carriage? You won't find that anywhere else in the U.S. Congratulations, you witnessed one of only five seacoast guns to be fired on a regular basis in the United States. We really want to see your pics!! DD is right. We did!

You lucky dog!!!

Tracy and Mike

Don Krag · « **Reply #19 on:** September 28, 2007, 03:34:07 AM »

We're already planning a second trip for the Atlantic coast. No conferences...just fun!

I was thinking of y'all and took lot of pics of both cannon and carraige, especially the 9". That one was huge! I got about halfway through editing pics last night so I'll finish up and get them on-line today.

Don Krag · « **Reply #20 on:** October 03, 2007, 09:07:35 AM »

OK, I got the pics edited and uploaded. rather than try and put them all here, I made a webpage on my site for them. To see all the pics click on the following.

http://www.100megsfree3.com/kragaxe/Blackpowder/Blackpowder.html

If you want a high-res pic of anything email me.

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #21 on:** October 03, 2007, 10:02:47 AM »

Mike and I are so glad you had this opportunity, Don; we are also really happy you took all those excellent photos. Out of all those forts we have visited, our favorite small room in any of them has to be the shell filling room shown in your photo. We believe that the funnel was made of non-sparking tin with lead soldered joints, because it sure did not look like brass or copper. On the shelves to the left you can see several field artillery water buckets, one general purpose water bucket and the one farthest away, a seacoast artillery water bucket with it's characteristic sloping sides. We believe those bolts on the right-hand shelves are 64 pound solid, armor penetrating bolts for a rifled 32 Pdr. Confederate seacoast conversion gun which were quite common at the southern seacoast forts. You sure are correct about that 9" Dahlgren Shell Gun on the barbette carriage. It does look huge, much larger than they look when mounted on a Marsilly carriage or a naval, broadside or shifting pivot carriage. Please tell us what the firing of the 32 Pdr. seacoast gun was like. Was it fired after dark?

Those "stubby" guns you saw are carronades, we are guessing, based on relative size, probably 24 Pdrs. made by the Carron company of Scotland. They probably came over to this country in the late 1700s or early 1800s with British naval forces. Called 'smashers' by the British they were used for smashing the enemy ship with heavy, up to 68 Pdr. shot, at fairly close range. Their slower velocity, large diameter, heavy shot caused more of a crushing and splintering effect, rather than a deep penetration like the "long" guns of the period. During the Civil War, they were pressed into service as flank defense guns loaded with canister when the model 1844 flank howitzers were not available.

Excellent photos!! Thank you.

Mike and Tracy

lance · « **Reply #22 on:** October 03, 2007, 03:25:19 PM »

Don, i've been watching this page in silence, and waiting for the pics.........Well worth the wait!!! can't hardly wait for your next trip

Don Krag · « **Reply #23 on:** October 03, 2007, 05:21:02 PM »

Mike & Tracy,
I figured y'all would have the scoop on the short cannon! I'll have to look over the markings I made rubbings of and see if the weight was on there. It looked identical to the 32 lb one....just "sawed off". They fired off the 32 lb one right at sunset. Dark enough to see a good orange flash in the white smoke. They backed us all behind the sidewalk across the center of the lower area, but you could still feel the "thump" in your chest when it went off. I don't know the charge they used, but I'd love to see/hear one of the 10 lb shots with a 32 projectile!

Lance,
I'm ready to go back out already! I just have to keep my wife away from the antique furniture stores!

Don Krag · « **Reply #24 on:** October 04, 2007, 12:49:13 PM »

The carronade was marked with:

Pf
32 1827

No 678
21 * 27

C. F.
G

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #25 on:** October 05, 2007, 07:19:49 PM »

Don, right you are, a 32 Pdr. The "Pf" marking we have never seen. Pd or Pdr would fit right in with the 32. 1827 is pretty obvious since the Carron Iron Works of Falkirk, Scotland made these popular 'smashers' from 1771 to 1850!! They were sold to many different countries. No. "678" is the foundry number. The marking indicating the weight, 21 * 27 seems a little odd, but we have read of quite a few errors in this area discovered over the years. We are, by no means experts, but the way we understand this weight and measures system, the two places to the left represent how many hundredweights are included in the total weight of the tube. In this case it would be 21 hundredweight or 2100 Lbs. The second place with the asterisk is the number of 'quarter' hundredweights or units of twenty-five Lbs. The third place to the right is for the number of odd pounds left. In the case of the Old Fort Jackson carronade, we would expect that total weight to be expressed as 21-1-2, but this requires calculation. We found one of the few we have taken pictures of and it's weight markings are also a bit odd. See the weight designation in the first photo below. It is 17-0-25. Expressed correctly, we believe it should be 17-1-0, but once again, this involves a brief calculation. You can't really draw any conclusions based on just two observations, but maybe, just maybe, the foundry workers simply stamped numbers that anyone could understand, without any real concern for following strict conventions. As for the C. F., we really are not sure, but Carron Foundry might be a logical surmise. The 'G' is not too difficult if you are aware of the British Monarch ruling in 1827. He was King George IV, the eldest son of King George III whose rule encompassed the French and Indian War, the American Revolution, the French Revolution, the War of 1812 and Napoleon's defeat at Waterloo in 1815. George IV ruled from 1820 to 1830.

We sure are glad you took all those excellent photos. They sure bring back pleasant memories. We love Savannah, GA.

Regards,

Mike and Tracy

Don Krag · « **Reply #26 on:** October 05, 2007, 07:27:01 PM »

Cool, I figured y'all would be the ones to know what all the markings were. I'll get some photos of the rubbings up when I get back in town. They came out really neat. I'm putting them on matboard with the photos of the cannon underneath them.

My anvils are marked in hundredwieghts and such. I can never remember what stands for what.

GGaskill · « **Reply #27 on:** October 06, 2007, 05:57:45 PM »

The British weight markings c-q-p, as I understand it, has the c equal to the number of hundredweights (actually 112 pounds), the q equal the number of quarter hundredweights (28 lbs), and the p equal to the number of pounds. Thus a marking of 11-0-6 would equal 11 x 112 + 0 x 28 plus 6 for a total of 1238 lbs.

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #28 on:** October 07, 2007, 09:37:05 AM »

Thanks George, see what happens when I rely on memory alone. In the USA a hundredweight weighs just 100 pounds. In the UK a hundredweight weighs 112 pounds. I'll try to remember that! Tracy

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #29 on:** October 07, 2007, 09:38:01 AM »

One important thing to remember, and I do remember it, is that you have to be really careful when you measure the bore of an original carronade. Most that Mike and I have found have a "funnel bore" to ease loading. You must measure back from the muzzle-face 4 or 5 inches to get an accurate bore diameter. We have even found this feature on model 1829, 32 Pdr. seacoast guns. One good example is at Ft. Griswold in Groton, CT. across the Thames River from New London, CT. and Fort Trumbull.

FYI,
Mike and Tracy