Almost forgot the Waters barrel

[skb2706]

I have an upcoming pronghorn hunt this weekend and almost forgot that I still had to work up some loads for it, for my son to hunt with. I had fire formed cases but nothing chosen for the hunting load and little time to do it.
I went thru all my old Waters loading data and also found a box of Speer 130 gr. BTSPs...unopened. Figured I might as well give them a shot and to be quite honest I was never a real fan of Speer bullets. So I put together a couple of boxes to take with me on my little forray to the rifle range today. 130 gr. Speers, WW-748 near max load and some WW brass fireformed.

Factory 23" SS bull barrel in 7-30 Waters. First three shots make one large hole just left of the bulleye. I make a couple of adjustments and we are at 2.5" high deadon for windage with the next three. Didn't have the time to measure the group but thru my spotting scope it looks like one large hole........I am impressed. Not only is my factory barrel a piece of work but those Speer bullets will get it done.

My son will be happy no doubt.............

[Lone Star]

I have had great success with Speer HotCore bullets.  Accuracy was usually very good, and terminal performance is far better than Sierras, IME.  The Speers are bonded core bullets for a non-bonded price, and they exhibit deeper penetration than most similar bullets.  They do not expand to as great a diameter as non-bonded bullets, which means deeper penetration for the bullet weight, and less meat damage.  Those few I have recovered showed good mushrooming with the mushroom folding back close to the bullet shank.


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[skb2706]

Back in my beginner handloading days just about all you could find around here was RCBS equip., Speer/CCI primers/bullets and a few Hornady offerings. I just never had found them to be all that accurate. Of course that wouldn't be a fair assessment based on my loading skill level and possibly the guns envolved.

[sweetwyominghome]

Actually, the Speers are not bonded. The front and read of the core are of varying hardness. The softer front core is poured over the rear to mold them together without any airspace or irregularities -- thus the name Hot Core.

But they are not bonded..

 

[Lone Star]

Actually, the Speers are not bonded. The front and read of the core are of varying hardness. The softer front core is poured over the rear to mold them together without any airspace or irregularities -- thus the name Hot Core.

You are confused.  The HotCore bullets are made with a semi-bonded one-piece core, hence the name - hot lead is injected into the jacket.  If you have ever recovered a HotCore bullet you'd notice the difference in how the core sticks to the jacket compared to conventional bullets.  Speed currently makes no two-piece cored bullets - all their bullets use one piece cores.  They use core hardness and jacket construction to control expansion.  Their boattailed bullets use a standand "cold" core.  RTFM.


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[sweetwyominghome]

No, I am not confused. A "bonded" bullet is one with the jacket and core fused at the molecular level. The Hot Cores are not bonded bullets. There simply are no lubricants or oxides present which contribure to the shedding of the core upon impact.

I did mis-state one thing, though. The Grand Slams are the ones with a two-alloy core. The Hot Cores have the same core composition throughout.

[sweetwyominghome]

And by the way, I have indeed recovered dozens upon dozens of Speer Hot Core bullets.

[Lone Star]

No, I am not confused.....The Grand Slams are the ones with a two-alloy core. The Hot Cores have the same core composition throughout.

The poster is still  confused.     The current Grand Slams are single-core bullets using the HotCore process - they have the same core composition throughout.   RTFM.


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[sweetwyominghome]

Either way, the Hot Cores are not bonded bullets...

[sweetwyominghome]

As to the Grand Slams, neither of us were wrong -- and it depends on how new of a bullet you have. Here's what the Speer site shows: "Changes in raw materials beyond our control made it hard for us to maintain the previous bond we had between the front and rear cores. We tested alternatives extensively, and found that the single, ternary-alloy core gave better accuracy and increased retained weights by an average of 14 percent."

As to the Hot Cores, here's what the site says (note that NOWHERE do they refer to the bullet as bonded. They say "grip". There's a BIG difference.):

These bullets hold together better because the Hot-Cor process eliminates the lead oxide layer that's found between the core and jacket of conventional "cold core" bullets. Profiled jacket interiors add strength to the bullet shank. When you're after game at the upper end of your rifle's capability, the extra penetration of Hot-Cor is nice to have.

Available with a variety of nose profiles
Ternary lead alloy injected molten for improved "grip."
Profiled jackets for weight retention
Classic flat base design

[Lone Star]

As to the Hot Cores....here is what Speer said in their #11 Manual, page 29:

"The Speer-developed, "hot-core" process insures a very close bond between jacket and core.  This adherence of core to jacket makes it very difficult to separate the two, insuring high retained weight in the expanded bullet."

Notice the two words - "bond" and "adherence".   I guess neither of us was wrong.  Again.   

Please note that Speer is now selling - at a very premium price - Jack Carter's Trophy Bonded Bullets.  Anyone think that has anything to do with the lack of reference to "bonded" in the current description of the much less expensive HotCore bullets?   


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[sweetwyominghome]

Nonetheless, a "close bond" and a "bond" are still not one and the same.

Please call Speer and ask if the Hot Core is an actual bonded bullet if you doubt my word.

[Dwarfmiester]

SKB,

    The bullets sound as if they will do the job bonded or gripped.  When you have time try H335 in the Waters, it was Ken Waters favorite powder in both Pet Loads articles.  I have had great sucess in both a 12" Contender and a 24" TCR 83 which is a Custom Shop barrel.  I like the Nosler Big Game Ballistic tips out of the pistol but I have yet to try the rifle on game.  Good Luck and Good Hunting.

Len