Author Topic: Black Widow Bow suggestions.  (Read 2345 times)

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Offline Sandy Flakeman

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Black Widow Bow suggestions.
« on: September 05, 2007, 02:05:53 PM »
I'm new to archery hunting and would like to use a traditional style bow.  I really like the Black Widow bows and I was thinking of ordering a recurve to practice with for close to year before I try hunting with it.  I'm a very experienced gun hunter but have never hunted with a bow.  I'm a hardcore deer hunter in NY State and have two NY State record book bucks, one with shotgun and one with rifle.  I take hunting very seriously and want to learn from the people here if possible.

  I really want to stay with a traditional style and will take classes if required.  What ever it takes to become proficient.  My plans are to purchase a high quality bow and use it for the rest of my days or until I can't pull the string back, whichever comes first.  I know next to nothing about buying a bow, accessories that are needed, arrow types, draw lengths etc.  The questions I have are about Black Widow Recurve Bows:

1)  Takedown bow;  benefits? avoid? What type of Blackwidow Recurve?  Tree stand would be my primary hunting method.
2)   Draw weight?  I will be hunting Whitetail deer.  I really don't want a massive draw weight if possible.  I plan
on becoming very proficient with the bow before I hunt and will let a deer walk if a clean shot is not possible.  Is 50 lbs plenty for whitetail?  What's the lowest draw weight you would suggest and maximum ranges for a perfect conditions whitetail shot?
3)  What are the ESSENTIAL accessories I would need?  I don't want any bells and whistles, just the basics like sites, quiver, release, etc. 
4) Arrows.  Do some brands work better than others with Recurve type bows?  Broadhead suggestion?

I know this is a lot of info I'm asking for and I thank all who will take the time to help a newby out.
Thanks 

Offline Mac11700

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Re: Black Widow Bow suggestions.
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2007, 09:07:54 PM »


Welcome to the wonderful world of Traditional Archery...

You've chosen well...the BW bows are some of the best around...also...so of the priciest semi customs too :D :D :D

To tell you what to buy as far as riser types...is difficult if not next to impossible...This is going to be entirely up to how the bow fits you...Each have a slightly different feel...not only on the draw...but on the release as well...and it is one of the things best left up to your discretion...However...here is something to remember...If...you ever get a twisted limb..or slit one..on a 1 pc bow...you cannot replace it as you could with a take down.. The 1 pc bow is more lively in your hand..and may feel better to you...or...you may prefer the feel of the take down with inserts added for a side mounted quiver...This is something you have to feel...when you hold it...and shoot it...The 1pc can (not always though ) transmit more " shock " to your hand & arms...where as the heavier bow will dampen it some...

Me...I shoot both...and enjoy the nuisances of them...I also shoot 1pc long bows as well...In your case...being new to all of this...to really try to explain the feel of each is akin to telling you the suttle differences between different makers stocks...It may fit and feel good to me...but to you may be an entirely different story...This is where Black Widows test drive a bow will benefit you...

Quote
TEST DRIVE A Black Widow

You like to test drive a car before you buy, right? Now you can test-drive a Black Widow before you buy! We now have a fleet of DEMO bows in our inventory for just that purpose. Here is how it works:     

   1. If you would like to get your hands on a Black Widow to try out for a week, just give us a call and together we can select a bow out of our DEMO fleet that is close to what you are interested in ordering (the DEMO bows are not for sale).     
   2. You may send a money order or we can charge your VISA or MasterCard for the price of that model of bow plus UPS 2nd day air shipping and insurance BOTH ways.   
   3. After you shoot the bow for one week simply affix the enclosed return shipping label and have UPS return it to us.     
   4. Assuming the bow and components are returned to us in normal condition, we will then send you a refund check or credit your charge card for the price of the bow (you end up paying only  the shipping and insurance).

Or, if at that time you decide you want to order a Black Widow bow, we will transfer your payment to your new bow order and build one for you at the specifications you prefer and we will pay the shipping on your new bow when completed.

Sorry, this offer available only in U.S.A.

To learn more about taking a “test drive” Call

Black Widow Custom Bows, Inc. at (417) 725-3113

One of the best deals around actually...especially if you don't live near to them..

Now...to your other questions...

Broadhead...I love the old fashion types...and would love to recommend one of them to you...but...I won't...I will recommend 1 type...Montec G5...they are the best I have shot in my 49 years of archery...

Quivers...I like both traditional back quivers...and also good  side mounted types...Not all are created equal...and the good folks at Black Widow will help you out fit your new bow...and possible set up a demo bow with one mounted for you...They will tell you that as you remove arrows from the side mounted quiver...it can alter your feel on how the bow handles...it does...which is why a lot of us all use back quivers...They are more difficult to get use to and to become proficient with...but..work really well...There are many different kinds to choose from...

 Arrows...wow...where to start...Talk to them about mating some good heavier weight carbons to your bow...They aren't traditional by no means...but are 10 times more durable than normal cedar arrows and fly better...I'm shooting them now...and love how they fly & feel...take a peek at them...


Draw weight...Here's where many will differ with me...but...here goes...You have to become more fit than what you are right this minute to be an excellent archer...Why...? Simple...your back and shoulder muscles aren't conditioned properly...This is one of the main reasons you will hear & see posted for a newbe as yourself to start with a lesser poundage bow...muscle fatigue and poor accuracy because of it...HOGWASH...for traditional bows...poundage is speed...and all you need to do is to start training and strengthening them now...before you get your bow...How...simple...do incline push ups with your arms 6" apart...SLOWLY...doing them fast doesn't help...get to where you can do about 50-100 of them at a time...Also...chin ups...same hand placement...35-50 count...When you can do this...the  upper body strength to pull a 55-65 lb bow will be there...There are different machines available to help do this too...but...these 2 simple exercises works...At this level...you will be able to pull and hold a 55-65 lb bow for quite some time without shaking...In time...shooting heavier poundage bows will become easier...Or...you can spend money on a set of 50 lb limbs now...and then realize within a short period of good practice and exercise you can pull and hold more and buy a different set...provided you have bought a take down...if you bought a 1 pc bow...then you will have to buy another bow...For a recurve...I say go for a 55 - 60lb bow as a minimum...A 60lb B.W. with no stretch fast flight string or better will yield an incredible fast arrow flight...especially with good carbons & feathers...B.W. bows when tuned and mated with proper spine & weight arrows are extremely quite and easy to shoot...and you will be pulling and holding it with out strain in no time...and since B.W. bows don't stack up near as bad as most others...you can do this...The thing to remember is follow their recommended limb length..

Well...that's about it for now...Call them...and talk to them...they will get you going

Good Luck

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline Sandy Flakeman

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Re: Black Widow Bow suggestions.
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2007, 02:34:25 AM »
Thanks for the reply and I value your opinions.

I'm just wondering about draw weight.  I've been told shot placement is more important than speed.
I plan on getting in better shape also.  Bought one of those big rubberband type archery trainers as a start.
I'm just wondering what's the lowest draw weight you'd use for deer.  Mid level?  Max?

Thanks

Offline theoldarcher

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Re: Black Widow Bow suggestions.
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2007, 10:03:20 AM »
I have been shooting and hunting with traditional bows since 1952. 

If I could offer some insights as well, I might answer your question #2 first: you would be fine with modern recurve bows or long bows with glass covered limbs at 50# draw weight (at the normal 28" draw length).  I have friends that regularly shoot completely through deer, hogs, and bears with 40 recurves, carbon or aluminum arrows, and shaving-sharp cut-on-impact broadheads.  I prefer down range 'whomp!' instead of worrying a whole lot about speed, so my arrows tend to be heavier--example--the last black bear I shot was with a t/d recurve with 60# limbs, shoving a fairly heavy aluminum arrow cut at 29 1/2" and wearing 5 1/2" banana cut fletch tipped with a 165 grain fixed three-blade Snuffer at a whopping 157 fps; but it went through the bear right front to left back and the bear never made it 10 yards.  What you want is a bow that pulls easily from hunting positions: off one or both knees, seated either in a stand or on a stool/bucket, leaning off to the side, etc.--not all are hunting shots are classic archer form you see in pictures.  Also the maximum range is something only you can answer as your proficiency improves.  The whole object of bow hunting for me is 'up close and personal'.  I have taken deer as close as three yards out to 25 or so; elk from six yards to 25 or so; hogs from three feet to 10 yards; bear from 5 or 6 yards out to 15; then I took a buffalo at 45 yards--as close as I could get.  It just depends on you.  And a 50# bow will take all these animals at reasonable yardages.

Question #1: I still, at this age, hunt whitetails from tree stands: hang ons, ladder stands, and a climber.  I use both 60" t/d recurves (I pick from 7), or a 60" one-piece recurve (I pick from 2); I also use one of 5 different log bows (all 64" long).  I have no problems with these lengths in the trees.  The draw weights range from 45# up to 60#.  What I choose to shoot depends on how I feel sometime in January--I usually pick my bow for the year, and it accompanies my to 3D shoots, back yard forrays, and into the deer woods in the fall.  Which BW you choose would be strictly a personal choice.  I like the exotic wood model t/d the now make--I've had the grey bark and the autumn oak, but I really like their Osage t/d.

Question #3: accessories.  Fewer is better.  I use Great Northern strap on quivers for all my bows: quiet, easy on and off, especially in a tree stand, and no holes required.  Bow stringer to prevent twist to bow limbs when stringing your bow.  String silencers--my personal choice is beaver balls, but that is only one option.  I use a tip protector on my bottom limb as I have a bad habit of using my bow for a binocular brace pod.  I also have a bow square for setting the nock point--when I travel, I use a t/d so I want to be sure my brace height stays the same when I put the bow back together prior to my hunt. The t/d requires an Allen wrench as well.  I use a leather home-made arm guard to hold sleeves tight against my arm and away from the bow string.  I use Black Widow shooting gloves (finger tip style), but you can use a tab or a full shooting glove  as well.  You will add lots of stuff as you attend traditional bow shoots or expos, trust me!     ;)

Question #4: You should work with someone with some experience to get an arrow weight that will fly correctly off the bow you choose.  I use wooden arrows, aluminum, and carbons depending on how I feel, what I am hunting, and what the weather will be like where I will be hunting.  I use lots of different arrow weights depending on which bow I shoot, and sometimes it is dictated by the weight of the broadhead I will use.  I would not recommend mechanical broadheads for your bow.  For deer I use Muzzy 125 grain heads with replacable blades, 125 Gr Zwickey two blade, and Wendsel Woodsmen 125 gr three blade.  For all my bears, I have used 165 grain Snuffer three blade heads.  For elk I use 145 grain Zwickey Delta two blade heads.  Again, the choice is yours: just make sure it is of good quality.

Whatever your final outfit is, please do stick to your statement to let it walk if you feel anything amiss with the shot.  Practice until you can say, "I made a good shot", not "I think I made a good shot."

God bless, Arch 

Offline Sandy Flakeman

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Re: Black Widow Bow suggestions.
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2007, 11:14:35 AM »
Thanks Arch.  No need to worry about the "let it walk" statement.  I gun hunt for deer with a single shot TC Encore in rifle, shotgun and ML.  I've let many walk and my two NY record book bucks (151-1/8" net & 161-1/8" net) were both one shot kills. 

Much of what you said is all new to me but I plan on researching traditional archery hunting and practicing for a full year before I hunt.

I'm leaning towards a Black Widow take down recurve with 50 # draw.  The bow will be used primarily from tree stand.
Any model suggestions?  I live in Western NY state.  I'd like to get some training if possible.  Anyone know where I can get some no-BS training?

 

Offline theoldarcher

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Re: Black Widow Bow suggestions.
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2007, 02:39:35 AM »
Sandy, might I suggest the magazine 'Traditional Bowhunter', which has a wealth of information.  Included in the ads, however, is information on traditional gatherings and shoots, including the annual Eastern Traditional Rendezvous at Denton Hills, PA.  I wouldn't think this is too far from you, and it is well worth the effort to get there and spend some time with the many bow vendors, arrow smiths, and shooters: all eager to share their experience and knowledge.  Time in the archives on the Stick Bow site is time well spent, too.  Just search for words like Black Widow, Widow, etc.

Contact Three Rivers Archery, a Stick Bow site sponsor, and ask for a catalog--then read.  Look for books by TJ Conrads, Jay Massey, G. Fred Asbel, and other traditional bow hunters with more than a year or two of experiences--these are very informative.  Then the dvd scene for traditional guys has grown in the last number of years exponentially.  Look for dvds such as Vision Quest, anything by Gene and Berry Wendsel, dvds from Black Widow, etc.  Anything that has Denny Sturgis, Jr., in it will also be a wonderful addition to your traditiona dvd library.

BW model preference?  Like I mentioned previously, I've owned the Gray Bark and Autumn Oak, and if I buy another it will probably be a t/d recurve in the exotic wood model.  And I'm sorry I don't know that model number.

Best of luck to you.

Arch

Offline slave

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Re: Black Widow Bow suggestions.
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2007, 01:39:56 AM »
How do you plan on hunting? I have shot a few dozen deer with two black-widows over the years. I wish I could shot a 50" bow but 56" is about as short as I can shoot smoothly. If you plan on hunting more than 3-D or target shooting I would  recommend the shortest recurve you can shot.  2" in bow length can be the difference that makes a tree huntable or not. I also use modern equipment from time to time. I often set up a stand and hunt it with my Hoyt that is less than 38" long. I may later go back to the same stand site with my widow only to find out I can only shot in one specific direction do to my stand selection or limbs I did not need to trim on my prior visit with the compound.  The same applies for ground blinds.     
keep your powder dry !!!

Offline donedidit

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Re: Black Widow Bow suggestions.
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2007, 11:31:23 AM »
Sandy - As far as selecting draw weight and limb length I would find the closest sporting goods store near you that has a variety of recurve bows in various weights and limb lengths and at least try to draw them, if not shoot them, before you settle on your combination.  While bows from different manufacturers do draw differently, this will at least get you in the balllpark of what you can comfortably handle.  I started shooting traditional late last winter with a 58" 60#@ 28" Pearson recurve that was passed down to me.  It was very uncomfortable to shoot and stacked like crazy.  A couple months later, I went to a local sporting goods store and drew several recurves from 58 to 62 inches in length and 45 to 60 pounds in weight.  I wound up buying a new 60" 51#@28" Predator Hunter for around $500.  (While I have had my eye on Widows and other equally expensive bows, I wanted to start out spending less money to make sure this is something I want to stick with.  But if a Widow is what makes your clock tick, go for it!)

I have been shooting daily and was already training with weights and other exercises before I started shooting.  I can tell you that the 60# Pearson still feels uncomfortable and I don't enjoy shooting it nearly as much.  My advice - start with the heaviest bow you can comfortably come to anchor with, take it slow, and enjoy.  You can't build good form, consistency, or the right muscles for that matter if you can't comfortably come to anchor with a solid bow arm each and every time you draw.  The ability to order heavier limbs in the future is a definite advantage of the take down if you think you need to go heavier.