Cap & Ball Conversion cylinders???

[EDELWEISS]

Ive always been a fan of Cap & Ball revolvers and I especially like the looks of the open top Colts.  Ive been thinking about buying one (I havent decided on a model), and adding the cartridge conversion cylinder.  It would be mostly for play; but Id consider packing it on a hike if it works.  Am I correct that as long as no permanent modifications are made to it remains a non regulated item?

This wouldnt be for self defense but more just as a hiking gun with high marks for "coolness", sorta "...'scuse me while I whipps this out..."  I understand that a reload is not likely to be quickly accomplished.  Im wondering if they are reliable or just a toy.  Im happy to shoot only cowboy loads. 

Im not fixated on the open top Colts, infact the Rugers seem heavy duty if thats an issue.

[MS Hitman]

Check on Midway, they have had some conversion cylinders for various C&B revolvers in the past.

[EDELWEISS]

Thanks Hitman but I guess I wasnt asking the right question.  I know where to get them, (or atleast I think I do..), but Im more interested in are they "USABLE / PRACTICAL???" or just a novelty?  I mean I know they were used a 150 years ago and Im not talking about a fight with "corner pharmacy reps", but say as something different to carry in the woods?

Would I be foolish, (more than usual), with a 38 or 45 version as a just to have "trail gun", where no problems were expected?

If I were to do such a thing, I was thinking that a shortened barrel might be worth considering.  Its not like Id be taking a hack saw to a $1000 dollar Python or Mod 29.  I figure a replica C&B revolver is running about $250 and about the same for the cylinder.  Even if I do ruin the gun by my backyard smithing the cylinder wont be touched.

Whatdaya think.......

[Graybeard]

I personally think you'd be foolish to use other than BP loads in one and do not mean BP level smokeless loads but rather those using ONLY black powder as propellant. The make into a very weak action gun.

[blhof]

I've got the Ruger Old Army and a 45 colt cylinder; Graybeard is right(You MUST only use Cowboy action loads) even with the Ruger; one of the strongest of the new B/P revolvers.  They were all made for B/P and much lower pressures than modern powders.  Black powder is the safest fuel.  If you do go to a cylinder;  load light for safety.  That said I've used mine for  years carefully and enjoy the change and easier cleaning; loading isn't much easier due to having to remove and take apart the cylinder.  The feds and all states that I know of; consider it a pistol when it carries a modern cartridge and all pistol laws apply.

[ed1921]

I use a R & D cylinder on an Old Army & it works fine. It says only BP or cowboy loads which I've mostly used. Have used standard .45 colt with no ill effects although I haven't much. It shoots low even with the adjustable sight.
I don't think anything more than BP or cowboy loads in an open top would be good. The cylinder might hold, but the frame would surely loosen up in a hurry.

[jd45]

I had a shooting buddy of mine, who shoots a LOT of C&B advise me to forget a .45 Colt conversion, if I wanted my opentop design Uberti 1860 Army to have a long, useful life. He said the gun will eventually shoot loose, even with BP & round ball. With the cartridge load & a 250gr bullet, (even the so-called mousefart "cowboy" loads will stress the gun much harder) with a lot more frequent firing due to the faster reloading, this will happen much quicker. That was his advice to me & I pass it along to you. The ROAs  & Rem. 1858s might be able to handle it, but not the OTs. Of course, it's your decision, jd45

[Dan Chamberlain]

The open top Colt copies are inherently weak.  But if your loads were black powder and on par with the loading specs of the percussion cylinders, the gun would last equally long regardless of the cylinder you used.

On the other hand, a cap and ball pistol that you have lovingly tinkered with to get it to shoot point of aim, will probably disappoint you when you put a new cylinder in it and start shooting cartridges. 

Why bother.  Start with a Cimarron authentic Richards-Mason conversion and live with a gun that shoots cartridges, or have a C&B converted using authentic parts.  If you aren't going to do that, you will find no advantages to an after market cylinder other than ease of loading. 

It's like buying a nice bolt action rifle...and trying to convert it to semi-automatic.  It can be done...but they already exist.

Dan

[m-g Willy]

I was going to get a open top in 44 but decided against it after reading so much about the trouble (most shooters) have with them.
From firing pins , timming issues,and shooting loose after you get the other problems worked out!
They are the best pointing guns made along with the c&b guns they came from though.
But you got to remember that Colt came out with the open top guns first-Then Remington did them one better by adding the top strap to thier gun.
Colt decided to make thier cartridge guns 1873's without the problems of the ot by adding the top strap.
It's same as shooting the Walker ,then shooting a 1860 Army !
The improvments in the later Army made for a much better and dependable gun.
The same goes for the SAA compared to the ot's. (LESS HASSLE AND MORE DEPENDABLE)


Willy

[messer454]

The open top Colt copies are inherently weak.  But if your loads were black powder and on par with the loading specs of the percussion cylinders, the gun would last equally long regardless of the cylinder you used.

On the other hand, a cap and ball pistol that you have lovingly tinkered with to get it to shoot point of aim, will probably disappoint you when you put a new cylinder in it and start shooting cartridges. 

Why bother.  Start with a Cimarron authentic Richards-Mason conversion and live with a gun that shoots cartridges, or have a C&B converted using authentic parts.  If you aren't going to do that, you will find no advantages to an after market cylinder other than ease of loading. 

It's like buying a nice bolt action rifle...and trying to convert it to semi-automatic.  It can be done...but they already exist.

Dan

So the Cimarron's are stronger and won't shoot loose with smokeless cowboy loads like converting one yourself?  I find the history of the conversuions very intersting.

[mikedb]

I have been looking at the cartridge conversions done by Uberti and was wondering what has been the experience folks have had with them. 

[jjamna]

For the price of the cap and ball pistol plus conversion cyl you can get a good replica single action for less

[Flint]

The Uberti made 72Opentop and the R-M conversions are significantly stronger than the originals.  The cylinders are larger in diameter and the steel is better.  The steel in an Uberti Opentop/conversion is NOT the same as they use on the Cap & Ball, and the workmanship is better as well.  They do hold up. I among several others in my local clubs use them regularly as main match pistols, in my posse Saturday were mine shooting 44 Russian, and two other shooters using 44 Colt and 38 Special.  Oddly enough, the only one shooting black powder (that day) was the 38 Special.

I have shot my 1860 drop-in both smokeless and black, in both 45 Colt and 45 Schofield, both worked well.  I have four 51/61 Navies converted to 38, two Kirst and two R&D (gated).  They have never been fired with black powder (yet).  They have been used in CAS matches for the past three or four years with no failures attributable to the conversions or using smokeless powder.  (Titegroup, 231, Bullseye  and Trail Boss)

The Navy's cartridges are loaded with 148 gr Hollowbase wadcutters to fill out the rifling in the 375 bore.  That also works very well.