Author Topic: 45 Long Colt VS. .44 Mag (Read 3779 times)

ShootnStr8 · « **on:** April 21, 2003, 05:41:23 PM »

I've been intrigued by the number of positive comments about the 45 Long Colt -- a cartridge of which I know little. I'm wondering how the .44 Mag got to be so popular with the 45 Long Colt around. It seems that the 45 Long Colt has a bit of an edge and acheives it with less pressure. (Sorry, Dirty Harry!)

I'd be interested in knowing why you would choose 45 Long Colt over 44 Mag or vise versa. Favorite loads for either would also be appreciated.
Blessings!

ShootnStr8

williamlayton · « **Reply #1 on:** April 21, 2003, 06:39:46 PM »

me thinks--when i think of self defense-and i assume this is the intent, if not then, oh well--i think of what i want to do if pressed to such a point. my main goal is to remove the threat, to make the threat to cease and desist. i believe one can do this most effectively by hitting what you are aiming for---some can do this, i suspose, with a .50 cal from their hip, i doubt i can. i doubt that i can fire a .44 with the effectiveness i desire- as a matter of personal ability a .40 or .45 would be the most i would feel effective with. thats me, not you, and your not going to be around when i need you . what i want to do is hit whatever, and more than once.
there are a lot of variations to this discussion and a lot more answers which can be argued--but in the end nobody is going to be there but you and you better have what you can use. i agree the bigger the better--but what are you better with--i.m bettin on what i'm best with, have the most confidence in, and am not afraid to pronounce judgement with--may be a butter knife--but then that limits my range of travel.
go figure it out--it only cost money to own more than one--it may cost more than that if you only buy one on somebody elses thoughts--sides that them thangs is fun.
blessings

Majic · « **Reply #2 on:** April 22, 2003, 06:50:25 AM »

In 1873 the .45 Colt was THE magnum of handgun cartridges. But along comes Mr. Elmer Keith, a man many people greatly respect, with his hot loaded .44sp. Winchester listened to the old great one and developed the .44mag which then became the new king of handgun cartidges. The popularity of the .44mag started with the movie Dirty Harry. I remember at that time finding a M29 was like looking for hen's teeth. The .45 Colt resided in the background because there were too many older Colts still being used that couldn't handle the potential power that the cartridge can generate. For safety, the ammo companies kept the pressures low enough for these guns. This is still true today except for a few custom ammo companies. We have several strong platforms today for launching hot .45 Colts and it's gaining popularity on the .44mag. But don't forget that the old .45 Colt has been magnumized these days. The factory standard loading could be considered the ".45 Special", and the magnum is the ".454".

Hcliff · « **Reply #3 on:** April 22, 2003, 07:41:25 AM »

The 45 Colt is a cartrideg that is loaded to standard lower pressures because of the old blackpowder and older steel era guns. The 44 Mag was designed as a high pressure gun. 900 vs 1200 fps

That all said the comparison that you are speaking about is for the Ruger and TC guns. They can be loaded to higher pressure than some other brands. Then it get 44 mag performance. Ther is some great reading about this at http://www.sixgunner.com/linebaugh/dissolving.htm and http://www.sixgunner.com/linebaugh/Default.htm (multiple articles here)

I shoot and load for both. There is lots of data on the 44 magnum in any kind of manual. The data for the Ruger and TC level is not a s easy to find be fairly attainable. Lots of info in the Hodgdon manual and the Hornady.

The 45 Colt has a capability of being loaded with a touch heavier bullets. The 44 usually is 240-300 the colt 250-325. With the 45 Colt it can be same bullet weight with less pressure than the 44 magnum. The advantage for the 44 is easy to buy high pressure ammo for. The 45 Colt needs to be handloaded or speciality ammo companies

Both are great. Most people buy the 44 mag first as that is the 30/06 of the handgun. Either one is great.

Hcliff

Sixgun · « **Reply #4 on:** April 22, 2003, 09:30:31 AM »

My old buddy Elmer started hot loading the 45 Colt first. Everything went real good at first, then he started blowing up 45 Colt cylinders. The reason was that the cylinder wall on a 45 Colt was too thin for the pressures that he was generating. He went to a 44 Special because the cylinder walls were thicker, and started over. The outcome of this testing was the 44 mag.

Now I don't know how many of you gents have noticed this but alot of attention is given to cylinder wall thickness in the guns that are made for the hot 45s. If you reload and own a 45 Colt chambered gun, you should be paying attention also. In Contenders and Rifles it is isn't too critical. In Rugers, it may be a little more critical. In S&W and Colts and clones you are in for a surprize if you think you can get away with 45 Colt Mags as a steady diet, ask Elmer.

Maybe that is why most of the 454s have only 5 shot cylinders or extra big cylinders.

Back in the Speer #9 manual there is a warning under the loading data for the 45 Colt in Rugers and Contenders. It goes somethong like, "If Magnum performance is needed, buy a Magnum."

I bought a 44 mag at that time. I can use the reloading data in the manuals and get magnum performance without any worry.

Sixgun

PS. I like my Colt 45 also.

Bullseye · « **Reply #5 on:** April 22, 2003, 01:53:33 PM »

I prefer the 44 because I have never gotten good case life or accuracy out of hot loaded 45's. I know others have, but after a lot of load tinkering with no improvements with the hot loads, I sold mine and currently do not have one. Was at a gun store today though and that special edition stainless Bisley with the short barrel in 45 LC is now on my mind. After all, I do still have the dies, and I always believe I will make something work in time.

Majic · « **Reply #6 on:** April 22, 2003, 06:13:57 PM »

Not all Colts today fall in the same catergory as the SAA. The Anaconda has the strength and cylinder wall thickness to handle todays hot .45 loads. It is the only Colt that can safely handle the pressures.

Zachary · « **Reply #7 on:** April 23, 2003, 05:12:33 AM »

I would say the 44Mag hands down.

Zachary

Zachary · « **Reply #8 on:** April 23, 2003, 05:18:22 AM »

I like the 44 because it has more power than the 44 colt, and you can use the 44 shorter ammo for "target" practice.

Zachary

Zachary · « **Reply #9 on:** April 23, 2003, 05:21:47 AM »

My favorite load for the 44mag is Federal's 300 grain cast core.

Zachary

Savage · « **Reply #10 on:** April 23, 2003, 12:06:12 PM »

I like um both! Don't own a LC right now but would like to have one or two of the Rugers RH or BH. I love my Mdl 29 but I think from the load data I've seen the LC has a power edge on the .44. There are two reasons the .44 is more popular. The first is the moniker "Magnum" The second is, for a lot of years no one chambered a modern platform for the .45LC. All that is changing now with the Redhawk, the Tracker, and now Smith & Wesson. I think the .45LC is on it's way back!
Stay Safe,
Savage

SingleFan · « **Reply #11 on:** April 23, 2003, 01:24:23 PM »

It's fresh on my mind because I just bought a 625-5 in 45 Colt. I already had a 629 Hunter Plus in 44 mag and wanted something THAT would be sufficient for whitetail, but with less bite to the hand (also just because I really liked the gun)

I agree that the 45 is experiencing a bit of a comeback, but I don't think it will supplant the 44. EVERYTHING I've read about hot loading 45 colts points to proceed with caution. One of the writers even pointed out that the limitation may not even be the cylinder walls, but the 45 case itself, which for a number of reasons, don't seem to be as strong as the 44.

S&W says the 625 is capable of +P loads, but I respect what Linebaugh wrote about this gun...use sparingly. It will work well over the long haul with moderate loads, WHICH IS ALL I NEED FOR DEER OR BLACK BEAR.

If I want a full power magnum load I take the 44, if I want a more moderate but adequately powerful load I grab the 45. By the way, it's more accurate than my 44...and they are both well tuned guns.

1badmagnum · « **Reply #12 on:** April 23, 2003, 10:06:01 PM »

I like them both,although 44 magnum componants are usually less expensive,both calibers are awesome for plinking and hunting.
the lower velocity of the 45 colt makes for a better defense round.

Tom W. · « **Reply #13 on:** April 24, 2003, 03:29:51 PM »

I have both and like them both. I have the .44 set up how I want it, and the .45 Colt is getting worked with to see which load it prefers.they're both fun to plink with, but to carry on a daily basis my Government model .45 acp gets the nod.

Henry Bowman · « **Reply #14 on:** April 25, 2003, 05:44:10 PM »

Hello, in the proper platform the .45 Colt can easily surpass the 44 (actually a .43) Rem Mag (sorry Magic! It was Remington, not Winchester) simply because the Long Colt will hold more powder.
The late production S&W 625s in .45 Colt have the improved 1X20 twist that's the same as the old .44 Mag and stabilizes the warmer loads much better equating to legendary accuracy.
BTW, the myth of weak .45 Colt brass died with the hundred year old ballon head brass, Casull developed his famous 454 Casull using sixties vintage Long Colt brass and Triplex powder combinations.
As mentioned the .45 Colt is a handloaders only caliber for peak performance and platform specific,
BEWARE using the "Ruger Level" loads in guns not designed for 30Kpsi loads. The hotter loads will destroy the Colt SAA and it's clones, older Smiths etc.

.45 COLT · « **Reply #15 on:** April 26, 2003, 02:41:48 AM »

With the .45 Colt I have a slightly wider choice of bullet weights, can fire a heavier bullet and can handload to a little more zip than the .44 Mag. All my .45's are Rugers so I don't have to worry about blow-ups as long as I keep loads within reason. Edge to the .45.

SingleFan · « **Reply #16 on:** April 26, 2003, 03:05:24 AM »

Henry,

Thanks for addressing the 45 colt brass issue. I keep seeing gun writers bring that up so I haven't hot loaded my 625-7 because of some of that input.

Really appreciate the input on the twist rate being 1:20. I was unsure so have been staying on the milder side. I've shot a couple of loads, factory and hand loaded. If you have specific experience with the 625 I'm all ears.

Powder and bullet type/wieght preference from yours etc.? The thing shoots one hole at 25 yds. with FACTORY CCIBlazers 200 grain flying ashtrays but that isn't what I want to use. Too light for deer IMHO.

I've got some 280 WNFN's on order from BearTooth because they offer a .451 gas checked bullet and the .451's are not too tight to push through the chamber but .452's are. Marshall recommended 13.0Gr AA#5

Hcliff · « **Reply #17 on:** April 26, 2003, 05:20:14 AM »

Some of the brass issue is that Federal and Starline hold up better for high pressure loads. Winchester is also good. Remington is lesser desirable to load hot.

Remember some gun will not take the extra pressure for the cylinders are thinner especially in the bolt cutouts. That is why some can't handle the pressure

Hcliif

Henry Bowman · « **Reply #18 on:** April 26, 2003, 10:49:45 AM »

Hello,
.45 Colt your choice of the word zippy is more appropriatly used with the .44Magnum, in the 50s & 60s experiemnters used 170gn-180gn bullets zipping along at almost 2000fps (speed kills!) as did Super-Vel in the 70s.
The .45 Colt doesn't like the lighter faster bullets but with 250s up to 340s (I'm saving the 420gn story for another thread) the Colt comes into it's own special place.
HCLIFF? Somewhere online and in a past issue of American Handgunner Ross Siefried wrote about his preference to the .45 Colt brass over the 454 Casull brass in Five Shot High Pressure Designed Platforms.
Brass life from any brand Long Colt is contingent on Chamber size, Not Pressures.
SingleFan-
The S&W 625-7 is best fed Slow Burning Powders for optimum Safe Performance (re-Linebaugh, Siefried, etc) which leaves us with
WW-296 or H-110 (AVOID Lil Gun, recall in progress!!)
I've seen a few of the 625-7s-8s & 9s with a tad more endshake than need be fresh from the factory, shim kits are cheap from Brownells
Excess endshake is tough on guns especially with the heavy loads, shim to zero and no wear will occur.
Using a premium hardcast like the 280gn Bear Tooth mentioned start at 21.5gns H-110/WW296
Use a good chonograph and work up normally watching group size and velocity. 1200fps is plenty for the Bear Tooth but if 1250fps happens to be the "sweet spot" your safety window is beyond 1350fps with 300s
SingleFan, these loads have been tested using a five inch barrel so your results may vary etc.
My most used plinker load is 10gns of Unique with any available quality bullet from 250gn to 340gn
AA-5 is a very spikey fast burner I've reserved for autoloaders for plinking, it might be good for cowboy level loads.
Again, the new generation Smiths chambered in .45 Colt are significantly stronger than many other guns chambered in .45 Colt,
IMO it's the finest revolver available to the experienced handloader for both hunting and target work.

.45 COLT · « **Reply #19 on:** April 28, 2003, 01:47:18 AM »

Absolutely correct, I should not have used the word "zip". What I meant to say was "a little more THUMP on the receiving end".

Hcliff · « **Reply #20 on:** April 28, 2003, 10:40:39 AM »

Henry is right. Ross Seyfried used Federal Brass for the high end loads. On www.sixgunner.com there was articles and http://www.sixgunner.com/linebaugh/Default.htm . Federal brass wasn't sold in bulk for a while. Starline has been And your observation about the chamber being cut tight I agree witrh too. The more it expands the more it works the brass leading to shorter life. That is one of the secrets from the Freedom Arms with tight chambers.

The 45 Colt can be loaded a bunch of different ways. Great reloaders cartridge especially in one of the strong guns.

Hcliff

NM Brushpopper · « **Reply #21 on:** June 11, 2003, 06:00:05 PM »

Don't know much about all that "bullet scientest" stuff being talked about. All I know is that the older I get I shoot the .45LC much more than the .44mag, and the .44 mags are transforming to .44 Specials. I have shot almost everything the Southwest and Pacific Northwest has as game and I find that dead is dead, and I don't care what the paper says. I prefer to keep my hearing intact, and the hearing of my horses and dogs in good shape.

I don't spend anytime at a range, nor do I reload, my guns are tools not a hobby.

Just my thoughts.

WJM · « **Reply #22 on:** June 13, 2003, 04:09:54 PM »

To me it is very simple. There are guns designed as black powder .45 colt guns and than there are .44 magnun guns which were also offered in .45 Colt caliber.

daddywpb · « **Reply #23 on:** June 14, 2003, 01:35:49 AM »

I've been a big fan of the 45LC for years. It started with a Colt SAA, and has grown considerably over the years. There's a certain nostalgia aspect for me when using calibers like the 45LC and 45/70. For me, the 45 seems to fill the entire spectrum of loads to fit any need you may have. Black powder loads (fun!), mild plinkers, and hunting loads for just about anything I would want to use a handgun for. I have 44 Mag's also, both handguns and rifles, but I prefer the 45. Recoil from the heavy bullets hunting loads doesn't seem as sharp as with the 44's. I've never had a problem with case life with the 45's.

Dan Chamberlain · « **Reply #24 on:** June 15, 2003, 01:21:36 AM »

I gott'em both...I shoot'em both! Bullets up to 300 grains = .44

Bullets over 300 grains = .45! Bullets way over 300 grains = .45 and when it all comes down to thump...the .45 wins!

Brass is not...I repeat NOT a factor! Weak brass is a myth!

Kill a deer? .44 for sure. Kill a bear...well the .44 will work with a good heavy. They've been used on every bear species. But if I was going to go up North and hunt a bear I'd leavy my .44 at home and tote my .45 Bisley! That's the nice part about having a choice.

Dan C

daddywpb · « **Reply #25 on:** June 15, 2003, 01:40:52 AM »

Dan,
This may well be my imagination, but there's something I like about the bigger bore diameter. You're right about the 45 having more "thump". It's only a few thousands, but the bigger the hole, the better the blood trail - and if it leaves a hole in both sides, twice as good! Maybe the extra diameter explains the extra "thump". :grin:
Steve