Author Topic: T/C shooters READ THIS  (Read 5704 times)

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Offline Redhawk1

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Re: T/C shooters READ THIS
« Reply #60 on: October 24, 2007, 02:22:18 AM »
cva.

Dont u watch hunting shows?

Sure I do, but I sure don't believe what the guy on the TV tells me. LOL  :D ;)
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Offline Redhawk1

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Re: T/C shooters READ THIS
« Reply #61 on: October 24, 2007, 02:39:21 AM »
Quote
The 2 triple 7 pellets are equivalent to 100 gr. of black powder.  The actual weight is different.

I don't see why this is so confusing???

Because one would assume that the 50gr connotation on the pellets is related to its 777 measurement and as we all know 2-50gr 777 pellets is not the same as 100gr of 777 powder. For these newer pellets to make any sense they should be listed in a measurement that equates to the same product in its original form (powder). If I wasn't in the habit of shooting over my Oehler, I would never have known that when I switched from 100gr 777 powder to 100gr 777 pellets that I lost a whopping 200 ft/sec in MV. To me, that is ridiculous. 100gr of 777, in any form, should produce roughly the same velocity.

Not everyone shoots over a chronograph and not everyone reads these forums. Many ML shooters are working in the dark and making a lot of assumptions. Assumptions can often be incorrect.

Quote
Please do not think weight.  It is volume equivalent of blackpowder.  A 50 grain Pyrodex pellet equivalent of black powder weighs 37.3 grains by my scale.

I don't think a single person on this thread is "thinking weight". It seems that everyone knows what a BP equivalent measurement means. Including me, I've been shooting BP, Pyrodex and 777 for over 30 years. (as the powders became available, obviously) If 100gr of 777 is measured by its volume equivalent of BP & 2-50gr 777 pellets are measured by their volume equivalent of BP; could you explain why they don't shoot to the same velocity. Keep in mind that I an not even mentioning the actual weight of the 777 in any form.

It goes back to the 15% reduction when shooting triple7 loose powder. That 15% applies to 100 gr. as it goes 150 gr.

Here it what has worked for me when I was working up loads in my Encore. I wanted to find out if I used triple7 powder, what gr. I would have to use to get the same impact as 2 of the 50 gr. pellets of triple7. I found when I was using my 195 gr. PR bullets, if I used 85 to 90 gr. of loose triple7 it would impact the same point at 100 yards as 2 triple 7 pellets. Then I did the same in my Encore Pro-hunter that I use T/C bonded shock wave 250 gr. bullets. I shot it with 3 triple7 pellets and then I shot loose triple7 powder, I started at 110 gr. and finally got the same impact area when I reached 120 gr. of loose triple7.

The reason I did this was, when I go out hunting I use the loose triple7 powder, I do all my range shooting with loose triple7 powder. But what I wanted was to be able to reload quickly with triple7 pellets if I took as shot and need to reload quickly. I find it a lot quicker to throw in 3 pellets than pour 120 gr. of loose powder down the barrel. So if you notice, the powder is reduced by 15% or very close to it to achieve the same results.

I put in a lot of time at the range and the work paid off. I hope this helps you understand the 15% confusion with the triple7 powder.
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Offline alsaqr

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Re: T/C shooters READ THIS
« Reply #62 on: October 24, 2007, 03:32:41 AM »
"If I wasn't in the habit of shooting over my Oehler, I would never have known that when I switched from 100gr 777 powder to 100gr 777 pellets that I lost a whopping 200 ft/sec in MV. To me, that is ridiculous. 100gr of 777, in any form, should produce roughly the same velocity."

i have several friends who chronograph their loads.  They tell me that the same thing of true of Pyrodex RS and Pyrodex pellets.  They tell me that they lose 75-150 fps when switching from 100 grains of granular to two "50 grain" pellets.   


Offline Redhawk1

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Re: T/C shooters READ THIS
« Reply #63 on: October 24, 2007, 03:57:23 AM »
alsaqr, any time someone changes one thing in what they shoot, they need to do some range time. That goes for primers to powder to bullets. Consistency, and range time equals accuracy.

My wife complains I am at the range to much, but I love burning powder.... :D ;D
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Offline alsaqr

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Re: T/C shooters READ THIS
« Reply #64 on: October 24, 2007, 04:16:22 AM »
"My wife complains I am at the range to much, but I love burning powder...."

Yep, it is true that when you change something you need some range time.   i do shoot an awful lot but seldom change anything.  Done my load development and know what my individual guns like.  There is a distinct preferred load for each of the three muzzleloaders that i shoot.   Then there is a small game load for one of my guns.   

Offline Buckskins & Black Powder

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Re: T/C shooters READ THIS
« Reply #65 on: October 24, 2007, 05:50:00 AM »
Its even on their website too.

Offline AndyHass

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Re: T/C shooters READ THIS
« Reply #66 on: October 24, 2007, 07:18:31 AM »
" If 100gr of 777 is measured by its volume equivalent of BP & 2-50gr 777 pellets are measured by their volume equivalent of BP; could you explain why they don't shoot to the same velocity. Keep in mind that I an not even mentioning the actual weight of the 777 in any form."

100gr of 777 is 100gr of 777 PERIOD.  There is no change made to account for the difference in powder between it and BP.

Now pellets are different.  150gr of 777 are made to be a POWER equivalent to 150gr BP pellets...they build in the 15% difference.  This is so people don't think 150gr is 150gr and drop a REAL 150gr of 777 pellets down their gun (ie, when you use "150gr" of 777 pellets as they are now formulated, you only get the velocity you'd expect from 120gr or so of loose 777).

Frankly, the less dedicated shooters who only fire a few round a year then go hunting are the ones more likely to use pellets.  They're also the ones least likely to understand or know about this concept.  So Hodgdon calibrated the pellets so that guns will not be over-charged to reduce liability.

Offline Redhawk1

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Re: T/C shooters READ THIS
« Reply #67 on: October 24, 2007, 07:45:24 AM »
Thanks Andy, I am glad we are on the same page here.  ;)
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Online Graybeard

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Re: T/C shooters READ THIS
« Reply #68 on: October 24, 2007, 09:35:08 AM »
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My wife complains I am at the range to much, but I love burning powder.... :D ;D

Well Alex you are in luck as I have the IDEAL solution for you.

Take a can or two of powder out and pour a long line of it down your driveway. Then light one end and watch it burn. You've got to burn a lot of powder and you never left home. You're happy getting to burn powder and your wife is happy cuz you didn't go to the range. Everyone is happy. It's a win-win situation.

No need to thank me you are quite welcome helping folks with such delimas is my specialty.  ;D


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Offline Varmint Hunter

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Re: T/C shooters READ THIS
« Reply #69 on: October 24, 2007, 11:19:34 AM »
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[Take a can or two of powder out and pour a long line of it down your driveway. Then light one end and watch it burn. You've got to burn a lot of powder and you never left home. You're happy getting to burn powder and your wife is happy cuz you didn't go to the range. Everyone is happy. It's a win-win situation./quote]

I only have pellets on hand. How many should I use to achieve the same driveway effect?  ;D :D ;) ;D

Well i guess this thread has been adequately chewed, digested and regurgitated. Thank you all for your input, it has been interesting and enlightening. I probably won't be shooting a ML again until the new rifle arrives.

Good hunting boys

Offline Redhawk1

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Re: T/C shooters READ THIS
« Reply #70 on: October 24, 2007, 01:08:12 PM »
Bill, I have done that with some real old black powder I found in my garage. Wife was not happy with me then either, I left a black mark on the concrete driveway. So I can win either way. LOL  :D But thank for trying to help.  ;D
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