Lee 170gr fn in 30-30

[Dang]

Hello all ,, I'm kinda new to casting and I just got a Lee 170 gr gcfn mold to load up in my win 94.
I'm crimping these just below the top band on the bullet and my over all length is coming out at 2.560- 2.563. My Lyman reloading book shows max over all length as 2.550. I didnt want to seat the bullet past the front band for fear that recoil would drive the bullet back into the case and have the gc past the neck of the case, but I also dont want it too long causing a pressure spike.
 Anyone out there using this bullet in a 30-30 ?  Where are you crimping these bullets?

Any good loads using imr 3031 powder(or any other powder)for this bullet would also be helpful.    Thanks Dan

[jhalcott]

  I'm using the 169 gr Lyman 311 291 bullet in my CONTENDER so that wont help you. It is a good bullet for deer. If you are going to use IMR 3031 start at 21 grains and work up to 27 grains. Another good powder is WW748 from 24 to 35 grains. If your alloy is softer than Lyman #2 , keep an eye out for leading or other bullet problems.

[Lloyd Smale]

I dont  crimp bottle neck cartriges unless i personaly see a problem with bullets setting back in the case. Keep in mind that with cast your usually sizing to a size thats bigger then a jacketed bullet anyway. I size most 30s to 309 or 310 so neck tension alone ougt to hold your bullets just fine. If not you have a bad set of dies and need to adress that.

[Gavinator]

  If you can eject a loaded round from the chamber, it's not too long.
 With cast bullets, pressures don't ramp-up like copper jacketed bullets.
 For reference you should get Lee's Modern Reloading #2, and read whats stated here;

 http://www.lasc.us/FryxellCastHollowPoints30-30.htm

 I have driven hard cast bullets faster than jacketed without leading, but the best accuracy comes from air cooled wheel weight (BHN 13), gas checked & lubed at .310 (this just applies lube and sets the gas-check, it doesn't size the bullet), with a light crimp to get rid of the case mouth belling.
 And I did take Fryxell's advice on powder too, 26gr of H335.

[Larry Gibson]

Dang

You don't say what rifle you're feeding(?). If it's a M94 or a M336 then some crimp is recommended. If your loaded rounds feed from the tube when the lever is worked and eject (loaded round as mentioned in previous post) then keep on crimping where you are. If they hang up then you must shorten the OAL. I use 2.587" as a max AOL in M94s and haven't had a feeding problem with numerous of them. Not sure about the Marlins though. If you've a single shot or bolt action 30-30 then crimping is not needed or recommended as Lloyd mentions.

Larry Gibson

[Lloyd Smale]

Larry ive never found it needed even in the lever guns with 3030s or 35s. I do crimp 444s and 4570s though as they have enough recoil to move bullets. the trick is to have a set of dies that leaves enough neck tension. I flare cases with an m die seat my bullets and set my die to just iron out the flare the m die puts in them and have never had a problem with doing it that way in the 3030 or the 35. A guy also has to take into consideration that you seating a bullet sized to .309 or .310 or possibly even larger in a neck that the die sized for a 308 jacketed bullet so neck tension should hold it.

[Dang]

Thanks for the great replies. I am loading these for a 1967 top eject Winchester model 94. Im not having any problem with loaded shells ejecting,there close but they clear just fine. I was more worried about too much  pressure with the bullet seated out too far. Im getting maybe an 1/8 inch of rifling engraving on the nose of bullet. I havent done a cast of the chamber yet so Im not sure of the size of it, just got the rifle a couple weeks ago.
 I tried seating them just above the top band without any crimp and I was able to push the bullet back into the case. It took some force to do it so Im not sure if the recoil of a 30-30 would be enough to push it back. So better safe than sorry I rolled in a slight crimp and that seemed to lock it in just fine. Seating it there puts the gas check just at the bottom of the case neck so I think it will be OK.
 I am going to try loading some with Reloader 7 Ive read a lot of people recomending it and thats what I use to load my 357 max Encore and have had very good results with it.
 Thanks for the link to the article it was very interesting, I wouldnt mind getting ahold of one of those hollow point molds myself. And if I dont get good results from 3031 or Reloader 7 I will try some of the powders he suggested.          Dan

[Dand]

Just make sure when you eject a loaded case that the bullet comes out too. I had some long seated 30-30 cast given me when I was a kid. A bullet jammed in the bore. On ejection I had powder all over in the action - which was good as it alerted me to a problem before I tried to load another round and made a real jam.  As a dumb kid in a rush to shoot I tried pushing the bullet out with a willow branch and got that stuck. Then went home and tried to hammer the mess out with an aluminum cleaning rod.  Broke that off too. Finally wised up and took it to a smith who fixed it for a modest price.  That one bullet did a lot of teaching to me.

I like using the Lee Factory crimp on my 30-30 loads to be sure the bullets aren't pushed into the case while riding in the magazine (win 94 about same age as yours) or any other problems that might come up.  I didn't like my experiments with Rx7 - case necks were always smoked up, accuracy fair, velocity nothing to be excited about.  I've tried Rx7 in the 30-30, 348 and I think .223 - don't like it in any of them.  Prefer 748 or 4895 (IMR or H).

[Gavinator]

 Hi Dan, that article by G. Fryxell gives techniques that can be used by you right now.
 Getting started with cast bullets and with safety being a priority there are some tools and reference materials, and "talk" on the web that will help out a lot. A Lee hardness tester and his latest manual with careful reading will reveal why lead bullets can be loaded and fired "oversize" for better results. Better than seating the bullet long to engrave the rifling. A google search of lead bullet accuracy in the 30-30 will bring an evening's reading, you just need to filter out what's important.