What are your thoughts on dbl barrel shotgun for home defense?

[beavis]

I was in a local gunshop the other day and came across a stoeger coach gun.  I go to thinking that a dbl barrel shotgun such as this may be a great piece to have for things that go bump in the night.  With a shell carrier on stock with an assortment of buckshot, birdshot and maybe a slug or two it seems like it would be a pretty handy and effective gun. 

I know alot of people like the 870 and Mossberg 500 and others but an the old fashioned dbl barrel has saved a lot of peoples bacon for over a hundred years.  I know one argument would be having to reload after two shots but I would think that if you can't get the job done with two rounds of oo buck you are in more trouble than what any gun can get you out of.  And with a shell carrier on the stock I bet with a little parctice a guy could reload on the fly pretty darn fast. 

Another good thing is it looks like an old granny gun and the PC police wouldn't get too excited about it.

What are your thoughts on a 20" dbl barrel vs some of the more common home defense guns such as handguns, m-4s, ARs, pump shotguns, AK/SKS etc etc?

[NONYA]

Itl do the job,even if its just for looks,way safer than those rifles as far a having to fire it in a homeand hit a moving target,GOOD CHOICE!

[Tn Jim]

My home defense shottie is a Savage 311 with 24" barrels. With the 5 shot elestic shell holder on the stock I have 7 rounds of 00 at my disposal. Rapid reloads are not a problem with a little practice. It may not have the make 'em faint sound of a pump being racked, but the sight of two barrels looking at you is enough to make the average bad guy think twice. It's my go to gun for things that go bump in the night. My wife backing me up with a M4 is just for insurance.

[chris s]

They work, are reliable and you just pull the second trigger for the second shot. The negatives are you only have two shots and you have to be creative to put a light on it. Believe it or not NYPD narcs used the 12 ga. 311 up until the mid 90's. We used them because they were safe and simple. The training included reload and transition to handgun drills.

[Mikey]

beavis:  I have a 20 ga sidexside IGA Coach Gun that I use for that very purpose.  I also use it for critter bashing and it works wonderfully on all sorts of small game.  Those short barrels don't carry any real disadvantage when using shot.  I prefer #4s.  For 'behind the front door' that is what she carries.  I think I might look for some #4 Buck, maybe, someday, if I really think about it but I feel the 20 ga is just fine with the heavy shot loads it carries.


You are right, the old double barrel has saved a lot of bacon, and brought a lot home.  If yours is set up with a few extra rounds that gives you a leg up over a handgun and the opportunity to get to another gun if need be.  JMHO.  Mikey.

[KN]

I also have a double coach gun for "just in case". There is just some thing about looking down those two barrels thats bound to make you think twice. I keep mine loaded with high brass pheasant loads and an ellasic shell carrier full of extras.   KN

[Kragman71]

My personal choice for home defense is the 12 gauge doublebarreled shotgun.Mine is a long barreled Fulton;it would be better if it had "coach"barrels.
Over on the "Beartooth Bullet' forum,they have a long thread going about the best gun for home defense.Most agree that a shotgun ifits the bill,but the majority seems to like repeaters with a large magazine.They are hung up on the load;birdshot or buckshot.My shotgun has both,and each is available as the firsst shot. Birdshot for distances measured in feet;buckshot for distances measured in yards.
Frank

[1marty]

for home defense my 870 20 inch barrel with 00 fills the bill. I don't think the bad guys will notice the difference when the pellets start flying. I'm not a fan of the Stoeger since I saw a guy at the range had several no fires with a brand new one-something was wrong with the firing pin.

[LEO]

The double barrel makes a fine home defense firearm, its overall lenght is shorter than a repeater with the same length barrels, it is simple to use and quick to get into action.  Its draw back of only having two shots is not too big a deal in a home defense situation as long as extra ammo is kept with the gun and reload drills are practiced.  I don't really buy into the birdshot loading deal, I know the theory is reduced penetration in the event of a miss but sometimes penetration is needed and the idea of changing load types in the middle of a firefight sounds good but in the real world probably isn't going to happen.  A friend of mine engaged a fellow who was shooting at him with a 22 rifle, the subject was behind an interior wall, my friend fired 4 rounds of 00 into the wall where the fellow was hiding, 1 pellet out of 36 penetrated the wall striking the fellow in the hand.  Fortunately he gave up but needless to say no one was real impressed with the performance of the 00 against the wall.  The point of this is that if 00 did this poorly what if you are loaded with birdshot and the aggressor is behind even light concealment or has on particularly heavy clothing.  If you look at some of the load testing that the FBI has done, buckshot really is a very poor penetrater of even fairly light material.  I agree penetration can be an issue if you live in an apartment complex or a mobile home but a certain amount of penetration is needed to get the job done.  But that is a decison each person must make based on their given situation.

[mt3030]

....I'm not a fan of the Stoeger since I saw a guy at the range had several no fires with a brand new one-something was wrong with the firing pin.....

It's brand name/importer had nothing to do with it. Any weapon can be defective out of the box. That's why all should be on the range enough to build proficiany in the handlier and confidence in the weapon.

[K.K]

Though I prefer an 870, there is a lot to be said about the double. It is reliable, safe, and easy to feed. Pretty imposing, looking down the dual maws of those barrels, too!

[S.S.]

The 12 Ga. IGA CoachGun is what I have.
Never felt under Gunned Yet !
Bunches of #4 Buck in Reserve..

[PaulS]

A 12ga double is ok for home defense and better than a lot of arms. I prefer a pump 12ga. That way it has more than enough rounds to deal with multiple perps. About a year ago there was a rash of home entry robberies with a group of young men rushing in and taking the home by force with knives and clubs. They were stopped by a 70's year old man and his 38 spl. After shooting one the other fled as he chsed them down and shot them. He wasn't prosecuted because of his advanced age and the publicity that he got made him a hero. By the letter of the law once they fled he should have stopped. All of the perps had long rap sheets for multiple offenses of assault and battery, robbery, theft and drugs. The Attorney General didn't have the heart (or balls) to prosecute. It must have been an election year.

[S.S.]

While I do Agree that more rounds are normally better,
Turning the first perp through the door into a quivering pile
of Blood and guts will most likely keep anyone else from hurrying through that
same door.

[Old Griz]

I've got my Silverado close by my bed, loaded with 00 Buck. It's handier indoors than my 870 turkey gun. All the LEOs I've talked to have agreed that the birdshot theory is a bunch of crap. If someone is in your home, you want to put him DOWN before he takes your life or the life of a loved one. Birdshot can be pretty ineffective against heavy clothing or furniture. Also, our DA told us to leave an empty chair on the witness stand so we don't get sued. In other words, if you're gonna shoot, shoot to kill—not wound.

If two shotgun blasts aren't enough, the .357 is located 18 inches from my pillow. Of course, there's the little lady on her side of the bed with her .357. Of course, they've got to get by the German Shepherd in the living room first . . . .

[rockbilly]

In a SHTF situation in the home I would want more than a two shot weapon.  The elastic shell carrier with extra rounds does little in a stress filled moment.  Can you effectively retrieve the extra rounds and load the gun while excited, and being pursued by several individuals?  If I have to confront someone, especially in my castle where I am King, I want the upper hand.  I have several loaded and ready, but my go to gun would be the 870 Trench model.  Eight rounds just sounds so much better than two, and it also has a shell holder that holds an additiona six rounds of 00.

For home defense I would have the AA 12 guage in the attached video if I could.

AA-12 Gauge Shotgun

Military Police Systems recently unveiled a must-have weapon in the current CQB environment. The company out of Piney Flats, Tennessee has come out with a unique selectable (via a unique trigger) 12-gauge shotgun called the Auto Assault 12 Automatic Shotgun or AA-12 Automatic Shotgun. The AA name originally stood for "Atchisson Assault" after the original inventor but has
been changed since Military Police Systems purchased the rights to theunique weapon. The weapon utilizes a constant recoil system that reduces recoil by 90% as compared to a traditional 12 gauge shotgun. Thereduction
in recoil is the primary reason that this shotgun can be fired effectively in the automatic mode. With little or no barrel rise, this weapon is a
monster when clearing rooms! The weapon will definitely become a force multiplier with its ease of operation and massive firepower in both the
law enforcement and military arenas.


Technical Data -
* Caliber - 12 Gauge (2 3/4" Shells)
* Rate of Fire - 300 Rounds per minute/fires a 20 round drum in about 4 seconds
* Operations - Long Stroke Gas Piston with constant recoil
* Length - 33 Inches with 13 Inch Barrel (same size as an M4 with stock Extended). 38 Inches with 18 Inch Barrel
* Weight - 10.0 lbs with 13 Inch Barrel. 10.5 lbs with 18 Inch Barrel
* Feeding Device - 8 round magazine, 20 round drum magazine, 40 round drum magazine in development
* Safety - Thumb Safety
* Sights - Front: Protected Post which is adjustable for Elevation. Rear:  Protected Ring which is adjustable for W/E.
* Stock - Glass filled nylon available in: Urban Grey, Desert Tan,Olive,Drab, Black, Various other Camouflage Patterns
* Finish - Matte Stainless Steel
* Made of corrosion resistant, high impact,heat-treated stainless steels and high-impact plastics
* Low Maintenance - During a Blackwater shoot, 5000 ROUNDS were fired through a single weapon WITHOUT cleaning or a drop of Lube.

What is Constant Recoil? - When the weapon's gun bolt is cycling a  round, a gas system absorbs most of the shock and energy, about 80% of the total recoil. The weapon also has a very strong recoil spring that absorbs another 10% of the recoil. The result is a weapon that cycles efficiently and effortlessly while transferring 10% of the recoil of a normal 12 gauge
to the shooter!> The Video - See this monster in action being fired with both magazines and the 20 round drum.

Files:    
 
 
 Military_Police_AA_12_guage.wmv  
 

[Rickk]

I went thru my collection of guns looking for something for my wife, as she is home with my 5 year old all day and we have been having bear issues. I realized that under stress a pump gun would be useless to her.

I thought about it a while and came up with the SxS idea. I was looking for a new Stoeger but wound up instead with an immaculate condition Ithaca double make in 1937 for less than the Stoger would have cost me. It was slightly used, but still in the box - one of those rare once in a lifetime deals. It works perfectly, and there is little to undertand about it's operation other than put in the shells and remember to take the safety off. It has a single trigger, just pull it twice and it shoots twice.

It is really hard to image a realistic situation around the house that a SxS 12g could not handle.

As for me personally, If time permitted I would probably grab my pistol gripped Mossberg 500 and stick my Glock compact in a back pocket.  I prefer them because they are smaller and more discrete.

Still, the SxS Ithaca is the easiest to get to.

[Old Griz]

Most of the time K.I.S.S. works pretty well, Keep It Simple, ah . . . Sweetheart.

[Mannlicher]

I have an older Savage SXS  in 16 GA.  The barrels are short, the stock has a short LOP, and it groups #1 Buck just fine.

[BillP]

Nothing better than a shotgun for home defense.  Double is shorter and not prone to malfunction under stress (the 870 is so prone to "short stroke" malfunctions in stress situations that the police teach a way to clear it quickly).  My problem with the coach gun is the open hammer and to a lesser extent two triggers.  Having to deal with cocking and uncocking under stress is the reason a 1911 pistol is carried cocked and locked.  Now if you're intention is to just shoot, it's not much of a problem.  In my opinion home defense situations often require some negotiation and I want the option of going from safe to hot and safe again easily and without making it obvious to the intruder.  On the other hand cocking the hammers may serve the same purpose as racking a round into the chamber of a pump gun.  As far as two triggers is concerned I have a shotgun like that but because i shoot single trigger guns so much more I have found myself trying to pull the first trigger again and wondering why it won't go off.

[leverfan]

I'm not a fan of the Stoeger since I saw a guy at the range had several no fires with a brand new one-something was wrong with the firing pin.

It's not exactly uncommon for the Stoegers to have firing pin problems.  Often, they mushroom if dry fired, then they fail to work.  Longhunter's Shooter's Supply has excellent replacement pins, should any of you double fans run into this problem.

[S.S.]

The AA-12 (Atchisson Assault 12) is actually a 30+ year old weapon system.
Mr. Atchisson designed it in response to complaints that the M-16 did not
give enough firepower to point men in Viet-Nam. It was, and is, a formidable weapon.

[Dee]

A QUALITY coach gun is as good as it gets. It is short barrelled, short actioned, and Very maneuverable in a home environment. As stated, simple to operate, and the QUICKEST SECOND SHOT IN THE BUSINESS. If you need more that two shots in home defense, after the second shot has not stopped the problem, new tactics are called for. I likem.

[Rscout6945]

I think a double barrel coach gun would work perfectly.  My preference would be to cut the barrels to 18" and shorten the stock just a little bit if needed.  Put a ammo carrier on the butt stock and load it with low recoil 00 buck.  The last thing would be a fiber optic or tritium front sight and you are ready for anything.

[T-Rex]

I have no doubt that a double barrel would do the job.  Probably wouldn't even need more than the two shots.

My preference, though, is a pump.  The reason is that it makes that unmistakable sound that the whole world recognizes as a gun being cocked.  More than likely your invaders will be high tailing it out of there before you need to use it. 

I have an extended (eight shot, I think) magazine on mine.  It isn't that I would expect to need that many shots.  I store mine with four rounds in the tube, and an empty chamber in the fired condition, so that racking the slide is simply a matter pulling back the slide.  The extended mag tube just ensures that the spring won't deform after an extended period of time under load.

I know you can get a pretty good price on those coach guns, but there are plenty of good inexpensive pumps out there too.  If you haven't already bought something, you might want to consider the pump.

[Dee]

If you do but a cheap pump, make sure that it has a dual slide rail as the singles are generally weak and poorly made. As a side note T-Rex, in my 20 year career I met numerous folks that the slide of the pump action didn't fase one bit. Had several that dared me to use it. If one comes out with a shotgun (or any gun for that matter) there are three things to consider. Can I shoot this guy legally and or is there better alternative? But the most important is, DO I HAVE THE SAND TO SHOOT HIM? If you don't he may use it on you. It is not as easy to shoot someone as one might imagine, and legal or not, there are consequences that last a lifetime. 

[Old Syko]

The "unmistakable sound" of a slide action seems to make a poor argument in a life and death situation.  If you have found yourself in a defense situation and you don't already have a round in the chamber one of the most important rules of self defense has already been broken since you have already given away the advantage.  Racking that slide is the same as firing a warning shot.  Sorry but it just makes no sense to allow an intruder to know your position and how you intend to defend yourself if you can keep from it.

Face to face, one on one, that side by side is going to be hard to beat.  But regardless of what you use a backup should always be available if at all possible.

[T-Rex]

I still believe in leaving an empty chamber, and racking the slide in the moment of need.  There are a number of considerations not yet mentioned:

• You are responsible for that gun sitting there.  What happens if a kid gets a hold of it?  An empty chamber isn't going to stop every accident, but it just might in the case of small children.
• Any time you have to fire your weapon, you are going to have a bad day.  If you are lucky enough to scare some idiot off, you can consider yourself lucky.  A lot of us are macho enough to think that anyone invading our privacy needs to die.  I'm not that hard core.  I would rather live myself running off an intruder than spending a week cleaning up his blood, and the rest of my life wondering if I really needed to do that.  The important thing is that you and your family need to be protected.  I think the warning is as much for you as the idiot waiting to take a couple loads of #1 buck.

[rio grande]

I don't like it. yeah, they look cool, but...
hammerless, what'cha gonna do? load in the dark, just woke up?  leave two rds. in the chambers w/ the safety on? Maybe if you're an old norwegian batchelor, but like t-rex said, not good around small kids. 
hammers? you have to cock them first, too slow. catch on things. then decocking if things turn out ok, nervous, sweaty, fingers slip?
carry extra rounds on butt cuff?  uh-huh, right. but too bulky, changes the balance, especially on short barrel guns. and they tend to slip around the stock, upside down, or forward to interfere w/ grip.
no thanks, double barrels are ok for billy the kid and doc holliday, but we have better options these days.

[manofthe45]

It is my choice for now, But with the 18 month old getting more curious and mobile it may change.
My home is over a 100 years old and has the walk through room to get to ours.  This is where m daughter's crib is.  the angle from my bed to the door  leaves a small saftey zone to avoid the crib, but the first barrel to fire is loaded with #8 bird shot to avoid penatrating the walls and hitting her.  At a distance of 14'  from my side of the bed to the door the shot pattern only opens an average (10 shots) of 10".  The second barrel is loaded with standard 00 buck.  My shell carrier the hard plastic kind is loaded up with more 00 buck.  My wife backs it up with a mossberg persuader in 410 with the spreader at the end of the barrel.  Again first roud #8 then buck.  My glock sits inches from the shotgun if more accuracy is required.

As for the shoot don't shoot debate.  I work second shift and only go to bed around 12  or 1 am and my wife and daughter are the only other people that belong in my house.  If an adult enters my house at night they are a threat to them and I will die to protect them so no second thought will be given to pulling the trigger.  With my personality I doubt guilt would be a problem but I would rather live with guilt than live without one of them.