Elk vs 300 win Mag

[chazgin]

Well this is the second year in a row that a Speer 200 gr has shown very poor performance on cow elk. The first elk I shot with the 300 Win (after switching from a 7 Rem Mag) I loaded with the 200 gr Speer Grand Slam. These loads chrono'd around 2950 fps avg and the elk hit behind the shoulder at 200 yds went right down and stayed there. The bullet left a good exit wound that wasn't needed. Griping about the price of Grand Slams (25 for $34) switched to regular Speers and now have had 2 elk I've had to track for 1/2 mile or so. Shot in the same place at about the same distance. These bullets never made it all the way through. Anybody have experience like that? I can't get my rifle to shoot Partitions under an inch at 100yds, it does like the Speers. What else is out there?

[Redhawk1]

Barnes,

[chazgin]

see my comment on Barnes in the perfect bullet thread

[nomosendero]

Yes, Barnes TSX, 200 Gr. Nos. Accubonds, Swift * several others.

[Doesniper]

Barnes for sure. Shot a cow elk on the front right shoulder and found the bullet in the left butt cheek. What is that, 4'+ of penetration? Had to track her 15'.

[chazgin]

I take it you guys are talking about TSXs? Are they really different than the X bullets?

[Redhawk1]

I use both the TSX and I still have a lot of the older Barnes X bullets. Yes the TSX are great bullets and I have been switching to them in all my rifles. I use them in my 243, 30-06, 300 Win Mag and 338 Win Mag. I still use the Barnes X in my 375 H&H and 416 Rigby.

Now my 30-30, 405 Win and 45-70 I use hard cast bullets with gas checks, and they work great.

[beemanbeme]

Holy cow guy, I thought I was a cheap skate. Spend the $34 buck. Practice with the Hot Core bullets all year then switch to the high dollar kind to hunt with. (do shoot a couple to verify zero)
I can't believe the Hot Cores didn't do the job tho. My first elk was killed with a 200gr standard bullet from a 30-06 and it did okay. 

[Coyote Hunter]

I take it you guys are talking about TSXs? Are they really different than the X bullets?

While not 100% sold, I think the empirical evidence from others is that yes, they are better.  I won't use standard X type bullets any more (after one bad experience) but load up the TSX and MRX.  Have not taken any game with them, however.

A comment on the Speers - the 160g 7mm Grand Slams served me very well for 20 years.  Never lost an elk, none went more than a few yards and most didn't make it that far, and only recovered one bullet - after it had wrecked both shoulder joints of a 5x5 bull elk.  Speer changed the formula for the core, however, and I decided to make a switch to true bonded bullets.

Barne's new Tipped TSX are probably about as good as it gets, and I'll probably use them in the future instead of MRX when using Barnes bullets.  While my main hunting loads use North Fork bullets, Trophy Bonded and A-Frames are in the same class of bonded-core bullets and I won't deign to say which is the best.

At a minimum I'd got  back to Grand Slams.

[chazgin]

Holy cow guy, I thought I was a cheap skate. Spend the $34 buck. Practice with the Hot Core bullets all year then switch to the high dollar kind to hunt with. (do shoot a couple to verify zero)
I can't believe the Hot Cores didn't do the job tho. My first elk was killed with a 200gr standard bullet from a 30-06 and it did okay. 

Not quite that cheap, LOL. I got the Grand Slams to shoot well enough to hunt with but did not go through a full load development. I tinker with my loads like benchrest style and only modify that so that the bullet does not engage the lands. I got the Hot Cores to shoot right around .5 in but went through many boxes to get there. This is a custom Rem 700 rifle that I went through all the accuracy steps, action blueprinting, trigger tuning, Shilen barrel, etc. The ogive on the Grand Slam is different than the Hot Core and changes where the bullet sits wrt the lands. So, I want to pick 1 bullet (application = 200 - 400 yd elk) and go through the whole cycle once.
With my other rifles for smaller game I never found the need to use premium bullets. The Hornady Interlocks shot well and performed well.

[Sweet 6.5]

2950fps might be just too fast for a std bullet and that is why it worked fine in the
in the 30-06.
Next time take a couple of steps back to give the bullet time to slow down.

[Larry Gibson]

Suggest you quit using the "behind the shoulder' shot (unless the elk is quartering away).  I've seen a lot of elk go a long way when shot such with most any bullet including the premium ones.  On a broadside shot the behind the shoulder shot is only going to hit lungs and perhaps paunch.  Better to visualize a soccer ball that sits low in the chest cavity between the legs. That is the heart/lung area.  Put your bullet through that soccer ball regardless of the angle of shot.  On the broadside shot you should aim straight up the leg about 1/3 up into the body. This will put the bullet through the heart/lung area and even if it doesn't fully penetrate the elk will not go far.  Better to damage a little more meat than run the risk of losing (either can't find or another hunter gets it) the elk. I know several .300 Win Mag shooters who use that shot with the 200 gr Speer HotCore bullet and swear by it for elk.

Larry Gibson

[beemanbeme]

Ah yes, Larry. The old "shoot for the exit" principle that works like a charm.  (imagine a large smilie of agreement)

[Gregory]

I can't get my rifle to shoot Partitions under an inch at 100yds. What else is out there?

What's wrong with 1" groups for Elk (or deer) sized game?

[chazgin]

I can't get my rifle to shoot Partitions under an inch at 100yds. What else is out there?

What's wrong with 1" groups for Elk (or deer) sized game?

Well if the average range was 100 - 200 yds nothing wrong, but in the part of Colorado we hunt 300 -400 yd shots are very possible with no way of getting closer in the sage. We do not normally take these shots but sometimes it means take the shot or wait till next year. We know this area pretty well and when the elk are pushed of the public land onto the ranch they stay in the cedars and the only shot is across the sage when they show themselves early in the morning or late in the evening. At that range a 1 in 100yd group has a CEP 0f 4 or 5 inches, with normal magnification scopes (Leupold 4.5 -14) and the drop at distance it takes some knowledge and judgement on aim point. It has been my experience at shooting 8 in bulls (targets) at that distance that you can't reliably do it unless your rifle, scope rest, and load is capable of delivering 1 MOA on a consistant basis. Rifle cold or hot.

Not the typical elk country people imagine but GMU 2, 201, and 10 is like this and is managed by the Colorado DOW for trophy bulls. 100 miles east in the Flat Tops is totally different mountain terrain and most of these considerations are not necessary. We pick our area depending on time of season and what firearm we want to use, eg. you would have a very hard time in GMU 2 with a muzzleloader.

[beemanbeme]

Wahl, I still say a fellow that can afford a $900.00 scope can spring for a $35.00 box of rocks. 
Remington is coming out with a bonded Core Lokt but I don't think they're making it in a 200 and they are as pricey as the Grand Slams. 

[chazgin]

Wahl, I still say a fellow that can afford a $900.00 scope can spring for a $35.00 box of rocks. 
Remington is coming out with a bonded Core Lokt but I don't think they're making it in a 200 and they are as pricey as the Grand Slams. 

Hey those 8 lb jugs of IMR 7828 SSC are pricey too! So the Grand Slams then deserve Lapua or Norma brass. Dammit, we're getting more expensive then Weatherby 30 378 factory ammo!

[chazgin]

This is what it looks like

[beemanbeme]

until I made my first trip out there, I didn't understand exactly what "a long ways" really meant. 
Until I made my first trip to Colorado, my longest deer kill was 87 long steps.