Handi Accuracy with Pistol Caliber

[cptmclark]

I getting a replacement rifle due to multiple returns for VERY poor accuracy with a 500 S&W.  Has anyone tested various pistol calibers in the Handi Rifle and found one caliber to be typically more accurate than another?  What level of accuracy can be reasonably expected, some of you guys who have a lot of experience with this.  2 MOA is about the outside of what would be of interest to me.  Cartridge has to not exceed 1.625" in case length, and not less than 357 cal.
Goal is to improve on ballistics of shotgun slugs for hunting deer out to 200 yards.  First years rifles are allowed here, but must meet pistol cal specs. 

Thanks for your wisdom

[PartsMan]

The 500 tends to shoot loose. You probably now that.
44mags were over size bore. (A couple new ones have shown promiss though)
357mag seems to be a nice shooting rifle, but may be a little weak for 200yds.
It can be reamed to 357 max. Is that legal?

[Mac11700]

I getting a replacement rifle due to multiple returns for VERY poor accuracy with a 500 S&W.  Has anyone tested various pistol calibers in the Handi Rifle and found one caliber to be typically more accurate than another?  What level of accuracy can be reasonably expected, some of you guys who have a lot of experience with this.  2 MOA is about the outside of what would be of interest to me.  Cartridge has to not exceed 1.625" in case length, and not less than 357 cal.
Goal is to improve on ballistics of shotgun slugs for hunting deer out to 200 yards.  First years rifles are allowed here, but must meet pistol cal specs. 

Thanks for your wisdom

I would opt for one of the new 45 Colts myself...Quickdtoo has had some good luck with his...

Mac

[quickdtoo]

So we don't travel over a path already traveled, I've shared quite a bit with cptmclark at MO.

Tim


http://www.marlinowners.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=5845&start=15

[cptmclark]

Well, I got my shiny new Handi rifle, in 44 mag caliber.  Had to wait for the barrels to come down from Marlin, so maybe I got one of the new ones with proper bore dimentions.  I do notice that the rifling is very shallow.  Never saw such shallow rifling on a new barrel.
It's scoped, cleaned and lightly lapped.  If it shoots accurately, I will have it reamed to 445 SuperMag, and hopefully have what I've been looking for.  I notice the twist is very slow, like maybe 32 or 36?  That implys it will not like 330 grain and heavier bullets.  What say ye of experience?
I'm curious about the benefit, if any, of free floating the forend.  It is nearly so now, except for upward pressure at the tip, and strong rearward pressure of the barrel lug.  It has to be pressed hard down over the lug, and obviously bears on the rear of the hole, squeezing the forearm into the reciever.  That might be good and intended, but I need one of you guys to tell me about that.  If it was like my Win 88, with a similar barrel lug, I'd relieve it all around to only have downward pressure on the barrel.  Do these do better with tip pressure, or better to completely relieve it? 

[murphdog]

cptmclark,
I got the 44 mag this year for the very same reason (Indiana deer rifle).  Mine shoots about 3 MOA with factory ammo (best has been Hornady, and Winchester Partition Gold).  You're correct about the slow twist rate.  Its 1 in 38, standard for all Marlin 44mag barrels.  I tried some Hornady 300 grain bullets, and they were just as accurate as the 240, so they must stabilize, but probably pushing the limit.  330 grain may be too long.  I've always been told that 44mag is a 100 yard deer rifle, but if you ream it out to 445 you should get extra yardage.  I'm happy with 100 yards as most of my shots are in the woods.  I've been hunting with my 44 Handi this year, and am quite happy with it.  Light to carry, easy to put on target, and it killed my deer on the spot.  Don't know about your forend questions.  The forend on mine is poorly fitted, due to barrel lug thats slightly off center.  In the off-season, I may try to refit the forend to see if that improves the accuracy.  But for my purposes, 3 MOA is accurate enough.  I'm sure you know there is lots of forend advice in the FAQs at the top of this forum's list. 
Duane

[quickdtoo]

Twist rate is 1:38", the SAAMI spec for a 44mag rifle, the 44mag barrel that I just got slugs very tight at .424" lands and .4285" in the grooves, typically shallow as most H&Rs are. As murphdog said, read the accurizing tips in the FAQs, lots of forend info there. I'd shoot it first, then you'll know whether you need to make any changes, but read the FAQs  and the Handi Basics 101 first, most everything that you need to know is in there.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,130530.msg1098482018.html#msg1098482018

[Mac11700]

I'm curious about the benefit, if any, of free floating the forend.  It is nearly so now, except for upward pressure at the tip, and strong rearward pressure of the barrel lug.  It has to be pressed hard down over the lug, and obviously bears on the rear of the hole, squeezing the forearm into the reciever.  That might be good and intended, but I need one of you guys to tell me about that.  If it was like my Win 88, with a similar barrel lug, I'd relieve it all around to only have downward pressure on the barrel.  Do these do better with tip pressure, or better to completely relieve it?

That will depend on your rifle...

Some do better with a pressure point...some do better fully floated...some do better fully floated and bedded...

I can't say for sure with the pistol calibers...I haven't much need for them in a rifle over the other calibers offered...but...for any of the centerfire rifle cartridges...I prefer fully relieving the barrel channel & forearm spacer of contact...then RTV bed it like this..





This way has given me the best consistency over all...Here's a link to show you what a good barrel and RTV bedding can do at 300 yards...http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,127945.msg1098462795.html#msg1098462795

Mac

[cptmclark]

Yesterday I range tested my shiny new Handi in 44 mag.  I was very happy with the results of this limited test.  Not expecting the oppurtunity, the test was limited by a picnic table, 50 yards, front rest only, and only a few of three handloaded cartridges.  So better results would be had with a better setup.

Best group was with the 300 grain XTP, loaded long on the two cannulure bullet.  Looks funky being so long.  Five shots in 0.6 inches.  Same load and bullet seated short (normal length) grouped three in 1.2, not so good.  Three rounds with Speer's 240 JSP went into 0.75 inches. 

This barrel must have a very long throat, and I want to seat at or very near the lands.  Don't think it's possible using typical bullet cannulure postion.  BTW,  how do these work out without any crimp?  Some powders require it I think?  I'd appreciate some wisdom on this.

Compared to the first rifle I had so much trouble with, this one locks up smartly, with the unlock lever popping up with authority.  I hadn't any experience to compare, but this one is great.
I had one pierced primer, the first zeroing shot with a factory cartridge, then no more.  Examining the firing pin holes I see a secondary deeper dimple in the center, so maybe a burr.  There was one light strike in about 16 or so rounds fired.  I've read Tim's suggestions on trigger technique, but by the time my finger gets all the way to the end of travel, the bullet is long gone.  I was gonna do some sort of trigger stop, but based on that tip, maybe it's a bad idea?
Now that I have a happy rifle, I'm planning to send it somewhere to be reamed to 445.  In another post Tim says that has worked out well.  I would like to get a lot more info about that, including load experiences and good places to have that done.
Another question is about the forearm.  Specifically, if there needs to be some force, or jam fit, between the screw lug and the reciever.   This one has considerable, with the aft part of the forearm hole bearing on the lug.  It "snaps" into place.  I wonder how this will fare with a heating barrel. 
I really appreciate all the advice and ideas.  I'm really going to enjoy this.
BTW, even though I complained about missing hunting season with the Handi, the bow and slug gun worked admirably    Yum.