20ga vs. 12ga

[jamaldog87]

can a 20ga do with a 12ga can do but with less recoil? like can you shoot slugs and hunt hogs or small game with it and does it have a shorter range?

[ironglow]

Jdog;
  I have only seen them used on deer and occasional bear in this area..range about the same..while the 12 ga is more powerful..either one is plenty adequate for the job.

   My Dad used 20 ga shotgun all his life for big game ..and got as many deer as the better of the 12 ga hunters..

   Keep in mind, the 12 ga is used as a "stopper" on some really big and dangerous game..
 

[1marty]

I' hunt birds, small game with both and have found little difference. For deer I prefer the 12g, although one of my friends had great success with the 20. Keep in mind recoil can be about the same since the 20 g is normally a lighter gun.

[Jerry Lester]

I use a 20 gauge for all my shotgun needs. I guess the bigger shot payload of the 12 gauge would be better if you were shooting ducks/geese, or buckshot for deer, but for small game, and even predators the 20 gauge has served me very well.

[jamaldog87]

i have a 12ga noble but it old and i don't like firring slugs or any heavy loads in it( it safe i had it check out) and i thought a 20ga would have lighter recoil but you say it's about the same.

[ironglow]

Jamal;
   I believe that 1marty was implying that since 20 ga guns are usually lighter..the felt recoil could be about the same..

   If you are using shotguns of basically the same weight (as in NEF)..there is still quite a difference in my experience..especially with slugs..

[beemanbeme]

The 12ga sends a bigger payload. Let's say 1oz versus .75oz and so forth. And it can send a bigger payload of bigger shot which will carry up better than lighter shot. While some shooters can do some amazing things with 20ga's (my father-in-law was one) if the 20ga was the equal to a 12ga, they'd no longer make 12ga's.
 Recoil is based on ejecta --the stuff coming out of the barrel.  A 1oz payload of shot being pushed by a proper charge of powder is going to push back harder than .75 oz's of shot being pushed with less powder.  If the 12 ga shotgun is heavier, it will resist the push back more than the 20ga shotgun and they may seem equal.  

[jamaldog87]

OK, but if just firring rag. stuff the recoil is less yes?  like a Pardner® Pump-Synthetic or  Tamer in 20GA, i have been thinking about them as replacements of the noble when times are better but what are the down sides of a 20 vs 12? because there slugs and turkey loads in both ga.

[Dee]

The actual VELOCITY whether 20 or 12 is pretty much the same, whether it be shot or sluggs. The difference will be in the payload, concerning number  and total weight of pellets, or shot, and number of grains in slugs.

[rifleman]

My son and I have used 20 ga in the shotgun zone for deer about 12 years now, and I won't hesitate to continue. I got 2 slug barrels (Remington) for my 870s from walmart @ $50 ea on clearance. I believe that with a lighter slug the trajectory is better than a 12 ga. Still packs a wallop, too. Works very well within their limitations. Whoever even feels recoil when your blazing away at a whitetail anyway?

Dave

[beemanbeme]

You will not have the payload in the 20 that you will in the 12.  Look at the size of the slug in the 20 and look at the size of the slug in a 12.  look at the powder charge behind them.  Same deal with the "turkey loads" (which really tells you nothing). Somewhere on the boxes, it will tell you what size shot are in the shells.  Let's say BB.  There will be more BB's in the 12ga shell than in the 20 giving you a denser pattern. And they will be pushed by a greater powder charge. 
If you understand the limits of the smaller gun and work to them, you won't have any problems.  And they don't kick as much.

[Mikey]

I would opt for the 12 guage.  It has greater range, power and flexibility.  Sabot loads for the 12 guage fire 20 guage slugs, as I last recall.  Last year a young friend took a 6 point buck at 150m with a standard 12 guage Remington slug - you won't do that with a 20 guage.  Mikey.

[dukkillr]

I hunt with the goal of killing whatever I'm hunting... I don't hunt to use novelty guns, and I don't hunt "just to be outside".  I've never seen a reason not to use a 12 ga.  I'm plenty strong enough to carry one all day without issue.  I can shoot limits of any thing I hunt without ever being concerned by the recoil.  I can count the number of birds that have been "overkilled" in a given season on 1 hand, most of which would also have been messed up if the user had been shooting a 20 ga.  For turkeys I couldn't concieve of a reason to go smaller than 12, if for no other reason than I like the densest pattern possible and recoil from a handful of shells in a season is insignficant.

[ironglow]

    
     Dukkillr...
   
   While I can understand your position, I am also trying to understand Jamal's. He has a preference for air rifles and is apparently just getting into powder guns. Evidently he doesn't like heavy recoil for whatever reason..small stature, age, shoulder problems etc..so most of us just tried to help..

   From experience I can tell you that my H&R 12 ga slug hurler worked for many as my only deer gun..but being 71 now..and with a damaged shoulder, a 20 ga would not be out of order...LOL
   Fortunately, 2 years ago my home county "saw the light" and now permits rifles..so a Marlin 336C..30/30 fills the bill.
 
   While I can agree with your striving for "clean kills"..I must admit that I do hunt with "Novelty" guns..such as single shot rifles...for the same reasons that some archery hunt and some use flintlock smokepoles !
  I also hunt for the altruistic reasons..I enjoy the planning, preparation and execution of the hunt..the selecting guns and ammo..the walk in the woods & fields, and the game that I simply observe, and then "pass up"..

   If i were just hunting for the meat..I would be forced to laugh at myself ! considering the cost of licenses, guns, ammo, clothing, studying, planning and time spent...while often coming home empty handed....but that is just my $.02...

   With what I spend for those things, I could buy great quantities of very expensive meats !...LOL    ...And do more profitable things instead ...

    ...But hey !..There's room for all of us ..LOL

     

 

[jamaldog87]

I hunt for everything. To be outdoors and seeing things most people don't is what i love. I have a very good recoil pad on my noble and so it's like a 30/06 or 270 with recoil.  I have looked around and 12 vs. 20 is a very hard call. I like my noble alot and i can just buy a rifle so, i am thinking just keep the 12GA and saved it for turkeys and other bird game and use a rifle for fur game. the ranges that i seem to kill hogs at are very short most times( 12-30 yards ) .

[Drilling Man]

I guess the bigger shot payload of the 12 gauge would be better if you were shooting ducks/geese, or buckshot for deer

  Bigger payload isn't the only thing to consider when shooting birds.

  A 3" mag. 20 carries the same amount of shot a 2-3/4" mag. 12 does, (1-1/4 oz.)  BUT, the 12 ga. will have a shorter "shot string" for the bird to fly through, and that means more shot on the bird for better kills.

  The smaller the guage, the harder it is to hit birds with on the fly...... the 12 will have a heavier, bigger around slug too, that will kill better than a 20 ga...

  Recoil is always a problem, so buy a shotgun that fits you well, with a good recoil pad on it!

  BTW, to the guy that said you only fire a hand full of shells a year....  How the hell do you get good with any gun you don't practise with all year long??   

  DM

[jamaldog87]

I guess the bigger shot payload of the 12 gauge would be better if you were shooting ducks/geese, or buckshot for deer

  Bigger payload isn't the only thing to consider when shooting birds.

  A 3" mag. 20 carries the same amount of shot a 2-3/4" mag. 12 does, (1-1/4 oz.)  BUT, the 12 ga. will have a shorter "shot string" for the bird to fly through, and that means more shot on the bird for better kills.

  The smaller the guage, the harder it is to hit birds with on the fly...... the 12 will have a heavier, bigger around slug too, that will kill better than a 20 ga...

  Recoil is always a problem, so buy a shotgun that fits you well, with a good recoil pad on it!

  BTW, to the guy that said you only fire a hand full of shells a year....  How the hell do you get good with any gun you don't practise with all year long??   

  DM

when i used to live at our old places there was train tracks and a old dirt pit and if you fired something fired then a 243 you could shoot all you want. I used to get lot of shots in with my 454 and that how i got good with it.

[trotterlg]

I may give away my age, but I use a 16, it was generally considered a "Ladies" gun itn it's day, but it gets the job done, a little more than the 20 and a little less than the 12.  Works for me.  Larry

[Dee]

I may give away my age, but I use a 16, it was generally considered a "Ladies" gun itn it's day, but it gets the job done, a little more than the 20 and a little less than the 12.  Works for me.  Larry

Let me guess! Your 16?   Actually I have used the Sweet 16 a couple of times back in the 60s and it felt like it kicked harder than a 12. Probably just the stock configuration.

[ironglow]

  Nothing wrong with a 16..except for the ammo being harder to get..

[montveil]

What is the equlivent caliber of a 20 ga??

[Jerry Lester]

What is the equlivent caliber of a 20 ga??

About 59 caliber depending on the choke size.

[dakotashooter2]

To answer your question about range, technically the 20 ga firing at the same velocity and same payload as a 12 has the same range and in the case of shot the same power/energy (per pellet) on target.  At single #2 size pellet fired at 1300 FPS from a 20 ga will have exactly the same energy and range as it would fired from a 12 ga.  The difference is the 12 ga will generally have a more effective pattern giving the appearance that it has more power and range. By playing around with coke it is possible to get both guns to shoot the same number of pellets and similar patterns within a 30" circle. This may mean using a modified choke in the 12 and a full choke in the 20. The advantage of the 12 ga may depend on the accuracy of the shooter. If everything you hit with either gun is within the 30" circle mentioned they are basically equal. If many of your hits are on the fringe area outside the 30" circle the 12 has the advantage. Also remember that the larger the payload the slower you can push it to remain in pressure limits so technically those big 3"- 2 oz loads Could have LESS power and energy (per pellet) than many of your 2 3/4" 1 1/8 oz loads. That reduction in power is generally offset buy an increaded number of hits again giving the appearnce of more power.

[Drilling Man]

If everything you hit with either gun is within the 30" circle mentioned they are basically equal.

  This is only true if the target isn't moving!  "If" the target is moving, the 12 has a BIG advantage that it has a much shorter shot string!

  DM

[ironglow]

  Dakoytashooter2;

   You have posted a good, analytical post..most of which I agree with..except for where you suggested a hunter (or anyone else for that matter)
   
    should start "playing around with coke"...LOL
 
     I know it was a typo error..just teasing..

[dakotashooter2]

I'm so smart I have to throw in a typo once in a while to let you guys know I'm human. LOL

[K.K]

Until recently, I would say that it was the 12, hand-down. However, there have been great advances in shotgun ammo as of late, and the 20 is now basically a 45-70 with proper sabot loads. Isn't that enough for almost anything on the continent? I still use the 12 almost exclusively, but I will arm my son with a 20 when he's old enough, and I just may find myself "borrowing" it for my own hunting!

[ironglow]

  WW 20 ga slug   3"   3/4 oz.    1800 fps     2359 ft lbs.

  WW 20 ga slug 2&3/4"  3/4 oz 1600 fps   1865 ft lbs

   WW 45/70    300gr          1880 fps   2355 ft lbs

     Seems we have heard many times that the old 45/70 would kill anything on this continent..even with the old  1350 fps load..

  Sure the 45/70 has a partial jacketed bullet, while the slug is plain lead..but the man asked about using it on deer & hogs..lead is fine..

  And we haven't even considered the saboted slugs in 20 ga. !!!

[mcwoodduck]

I hunt with 4 of the 6 legal in the US to hunt with.  I am a shotgun-Aholic.  I use .410 for quail here in Ca and as long as I pick my shots it works fine.  There is a lot of walking up and down steep hills and the lighter gun and ammo is an asset, meaning I can carry more water for the Dog (s) and my buddies.  But I am a good shot and a .410 is not a kids gun.  I know the limits of the small shot charge.
I use 20 ga for eastern quail and have had great success in Montana on Pheasants and Huns.   Also this year chuckar season will be the first time for a 5 pound early 1900's French side by side with 2.5 inch chambers  (modern 20 ga guns are 2 3/4 " or 3".)  Any 3 inch gun can also shoot 2 3/4" unless it's an older Browning Auto 5 20 ga Mag and then it will only shoot 3".
I use 12 ga for Turkey and waterfowl as well as most games (Trap, Skeet, Sporting clays, and $ games)
The 10 ga is reserved for large waterfowl and has been used for pheasants with 1 1/4 oz shells.
The main difference in field loads is the payload.  All shells leave the gun at about the same 1200 feet per second.  But my 10 is a big 32" barrels and weighs in at 10 pounds.  Not a light field gun.  That was a long afternoon walking the fields.

410 AKA 32 ga is a 1/2 oz of lead load in a 2.5 inch chamber. and 11/16 of an oz in the 3"  Still not a lot of pellets.
28ga was designed for 3/4 oz load and is great on smaller upland game.
20 ga was designed for a 7/8 oz load and works well.
16 ga was designed for a 1oz load.  Ga is based on how many balls of lead can be made for that diameter from 1 pound of lead.  16 oz to a pound.  Smaller ga bigger hole.  
12 ga was designed for 1 1/8 oz load and does really well as a general purpose one gun, gun.
10 ga was designed for 1 1/4 oz load.  In black powder days the 10 ga was a mans gun ans 12 was held for kids and women.
1oz of #9 pellets as around 437.
I do not own a 16 or a 28 now but may come across a deal in the used rack at a local shop.  

With the addition of the magnums everything went out the window.  and a 1 1/4 oz 20 ga  3" mag was popular with goose hunters in the 60's.  Steel shot killed the 20 as a waterfowl gun, till "Heavy shot" by Remington, came out ( works very well on Turkey too) and the smaller shot size allowed for dense patterns and killing power.  #4 Heavy shot is equal to BB in steel in killing power.  The larger pellets mean less in a charge and loose patterns.  Smaller shot size gives dense patterns and you have a better chance of knocking down birds.  the Heavy shot may be expensive but... it kills water birds and fills limits with fewer follow up shots.  I find it actually cheaper than hunting with Steel or Bizmouth at the end of the day.  
Long or short of it.  a 20ga gun will be a little lighter as well as a box of shells will be lighter to carry.  The recoil will be less.  Physics - equal and opposite reactions..... I am not recoil sensitive. so I can't really comment.
If you want a 20, get one!  They are great and will do what ever you ask of it as long as you use the right shot size and pellet material.  If any of your friend also have one you can borrow ammo in the field or at the range.
As far as deer / bear/ hog hunting goes... I have had poor luck with the #3 buck on deer.  The new sabot slugs and a rifled barrels are a different story.  The rifled barrel turns the 20 into a tack driving 41 mag mag.  I have not killed anything with a foster slug out of a 20 and can not tell you how it works, but the sabots work great.  As a one gun I would look for something with 26 or 28" barrel (s) and screw in chokes and 3" chambers.  For deer hunting I would get a second rifled barrel or buy a single shot that is set up for it, if your gun is not designed to shoot slugs.  If you can not get a rifled choke, it is not designed for slugs! and you will damage the chokes by shooting one through it!  You will also want rifle sights for accurate shots with the slugs.
Good luck.

[IOWA DON]

In regard to shooting birds with shot, I will go with a 12-ga until I get so old and weak that I can only hold up a 20-ga. Now I frequently use a 10-ga mag double for pheasants and am fairly sure that I can consistently come home with more pheasants using it than when I use my 12-ga. In regard to shooting deer with slugs, I have shot quit a few deer past 150 yards with my 20-ga with a fully rifled barrel and the best Winchester or Hornaday sabot slugs. A 250-grain .45-caliber slug at 1,800 or 1,900 fps has plenty of killing power for a deer sized animal, at least for heart or lung shots. If one plans on shooting at deer running away (in the butt end) then I think the heavier, more powerfull 12-ga slugs would be better, or if one were using slugs for bear protection.