Author Topic: a DeLorme update  (Read 1387 times)

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Offline Lloyd Smale

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a DeLorme update
« on: January 04, 2008, 01:06:44 AM »
 the service rep walked me through an sat pic download and i think ive got it down. Most of you here would probably have no trouble on your own but just turning on a couputer is an accomplisment for me. Ive got a ton of sat and areial maps now loaded on my topo program in my computer and some of them on chips for the handheld. It is very cool playing with this topo program with the arieals, sat. and 3d topos on it. Almost worth the price of the thing just to have them on my computer. You get a 100 dollar certificate for downloads with it. I also had him fill up 2 1gb chips with all the stuff for around my house and camp and used up the 100 bucks on another chip of my buddys camp. then  he sent me an email and said if i would post a postive comment on an internet fourm about the product he would give me another 100 dollar certificate. I told him that i had done that allready and that if i didnt like the product i sure wouldnt have done that. I guess it was more the service i got then the product as i dont know enough about them to know if this one is any better then the next and told him i didnt do it to get paid and it wasnt nessisary to send me the certificate. Well the next day an email came with another 100 dollar certificate. So if you figure what i paid for this thing it was about free. It was 600 bucks with the two extra burned chips a blank chip a rechargeable battery and home charger a car charger A carrying case topo cds for the whole country and 200 dollars in downloads
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Offline d_hiker

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Re: a delorne update
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2008, 07:54:27 AM »
It sounds like they are taking good care of you.  That is the type of service that makes a big difference in the decision process.  I am still using my Garmin Legend (b/w) and drooling over the new units out.  Last Sept I thought my unit died, it kept shutting down about 45 seconds after turning it on.  I changed batteries, even put new alkaline batteries in it with the same results.  So I just put it aside.  Then in Nov I got it out to see if I could reset it or something to get it going for deer season.  I turned it on and it worked.....  darn, I was thinking it would be time to get one of the high sensitivity units.  I might make it to Father's day before breaking down.  I am glad to hear about your Delorne unit, it adds more options to consider.
"IF YOU DON'T STAND BEHIND OUR TROOPS, PLEASE, FEEL FREE TO STAND IN FRONT OF THEM !!!"

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: a DeLorme update
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2008, 12:16:06 PM »
Garmin has replaced two units without blinking an eye and the new units came with power cables.  Replacement time in mail was three days.  But they have never given me a kicker.  Just good service. 

The reason I do not give detailed information on other brands is that I do not have them to evaluate.  The vast majority of the people I am around that have gps units own Garmin.  That is why I originally purchased a Garmin.  I was hoping to get some local support if needed.  Strange but I became the local support because I put the time and effort into learning how to use the darn things and I enjoy helping people.

This morning my wife and I had a discussing after she read the Regional newspaper we subscribe to.  It had an article in it regarding the rescue of a lost, fifty year-old skier, who spent the night in the base of a tree. (Most likely a Catface caused by a past fire.)  My wife commented that he should not have been up there because they have been posting the storm warnings for a week, and he may not have been lost if he had a gps.  Hard to disagree with her.

It sounds like DeLorme has a good product, and very good service.  I invite others to post their impressions of other brand gps units.  Lloyd keep your post coming on the DeLorme.
There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.

Offline deltecs

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Re: a DeLorme update
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2008, 05:05:08 PM »
DeLorme software has worked just fine for me.  I have a multitude of Humminbird and Garmin GPS in my boats.  The Humminbird is more user friendly but not as much info or detail on the chartplotter.  The issue I have with both is that cables, data cards, and interface connections are proprietary and not at all user friendly with either.  Most marine electronics have a standard language interface with each other but the pin connectors and cables are not standardized.  So, cables must be custom made to interface at high cost.  Also, with the Garmin Blue Chart software, it is hard to download into the data card without using a data card reader/writer made by Garmin at a cost around $50.  Humminbird is just as difficult.  I know market share is paramount to company profits but I sure wish all the GPS makers would standardize the interface connections and cables.  For hunting, I'm still using a GPS 40 handheld with no mapping capability and do just fine.
Greg lost his battle with cancer last week on April 2nd 2009. RIP Greg. We miss you.

Greg
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Offline Siskiyou

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Re: a DeLorme update
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2008, 06:32:37 PM »
I have a Hummingbird fishfinder/gps in my boat.  I have never purchased the chip with the Mapping software because it does not cover the lakes I fish.  AND I do not fish in the Delta often enough for it to make a difference.  I supplement my gps mapping needs in my boat with a Garmin handheld gps loaded with US Topo.  It works great for me.  I suspect Lloyd's new unit would work great on inland lakes.

I “wish” that I had the Hummingbird fishfinder-gps the years I fished in Baja.  I was using a compass and a notebook in the Sea of Cortez.  I would take a bearing off two different peaks and record them in my pocket notebook.  We improved our catch using this method, but a gps would have made a big difference.  I highly recommend a gps for road and boating in Baja.

A manufacture that offers mapping of the United States, and Canada only limits the user who may travel to Mexico, South America, Europe or Asia.  If you plan on traveling outside the United States you should look closely at the options the manufacture offers in mapping software.  A gps without local maps is still of use, but very limited.

A good example is when I am out on a lake with my boat.  I have created a waypoint at the boat ramp and have taken off up the lake and then into a river arm a few miles.  In the process I have fished a number of spots in the lake so a trac back feature is useless when returning.  It is getting dark and I select the boat ramp waypoint in both gps units.  If I follow my Hummingbird fishfinder/gps I run into a long ridge that runs out into the lake.  With my Garmin handheld mapping gps loaded with US Topo I can see my relationship to the ridges and avoid them.  Again I think this would be an ideal use for the DeLorme.

deltecs:  Have you tried a card reader that comes built into a computer?  I am thinking the card reader on my tower will read like 12 different cards, but the one on laptop will only read SD, and micro sd with the adapter.
There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.

Offline deltecs

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Re: a DeLorme update
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2008, 08:24:26 PM »
It is not just the card reader, it is the proprietary software language to input into the Garmin data card.  A reader works to read the card but does not enter info into it in Garmin format so the electronic GPS can read it.  I've experimented with it and no go.  Wish it would but that would be too simple for us common puter users.
Greg lost his battle with cancer last week on April 2nd 2009. RIP Greg. We miss you.

Greg
deltecs
Detente: An armed citizenry versus a liberal society
Opinion(s) are expressly mine alone and do not necessarily agree with those of GB or GBO mgmt.

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: a DeLorme update
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2008, 12:35:19 AM »
Theres no doubt that from what ive read the garmins are the cadilacs of the gps units. I guess my thoughts were that im new to this and would probably not notice a slight performance differnce between the two and the biggest decision breaker was all the bad reviews of garmins software, the price of garmin software, and the fact your locked into just using there softwear. I know if i would have boght a top of the line garmin and waited till this year for the areial imigery units that by the time i got this unit the chargers the card reader and bought all the topo maps and then purchased arerial imigery i would have spent twice the ammount on a comparable unit. One thing though to keep in mind is i doubt that garmin is going to have the resorces to do all there own areail and sat imigery so i would have to guess that the new garmins comming out are going to be able to run other peoples software. I may have been better of technically to wait for the garmin but the good thing for me is this thing is (censored word) amazing as it is to a beginner and it will do everything i need to do with a gps and much more for the rest of my time.
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Offline Siskiyou

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Re: a DeLorme update
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2008, 07:18:50 AM »
I have used the built in card reader on three different computers to transfer data from US Topo and City Navigator to micro sd cards and have the transferred maps successfully work on four different handheld Garmin GPS models. 

I would be interested in the Garmin Model numbers you are addressing that requires a Card Reader.  A check on the Garmin Card reader shows a card reader and software packaged aimed at the Marine Market.

The interface of different brands of marine electronics is not a simple matter, requiring different cables and adaptors.  Mixing equipment from the different manufactures can be difficult and even the same manufacture if the units are of different generations and the electrical and data protocols are not the same.  It enough for a fisherman to open another case.  Lowrance, Garmin, and some other manufactures make interfaces that accommodate their equipment such as a sounder, Radar, and marine radio. Are you aware of DeLorme having products that fit into these categories? 

You can exercise the same option as Lloyd did with his De Lorme and get pre-loaded cards for your computer.  DeLorme, Garmin, Magellan, Lowrance offer pre-loaded data cards, and most likely other gps manufactures.  Pre-loaded data cards are great for those who do not have the time or interest in loading a card or who are computer challenged.  This is from a guy whose wife programs the VCR.

My experience with the Garmin Handheld receivers is that none of them require a specialized card reader.  All the units come with a cord to connect with PC.  Depending on the generation of the unit it will be serial port to 4-pin data connector or USB to Mini USB connector.  The USB to Mini USB connector moves data approximately 32-times faster then the older serial port connector. 

Lowrance is still selling units with this accessories package:

Optional Mapping Accessories Pack that includes MapCreate USA Topo mapping software, one digital MMC/SD memory card, and an MMC/SD card reader/writer with USB connector

Navteg Inc. has sold map data to Garmin and to other gps manfactures for years.  Navteg Inc.  was recently purchased by Nokia.  The big financial future in gps is tied to the cellphone industry.  The current downside to the gps support from my cellphone provider and most others is that you have to be in range of a cellphone tower.  If you are in a remote location, at sea, you maybe out of luck.  So a handheld gps receiver is still a viable option for most of us.

The automotive gps market is huge and far over shadows the handheld market.  The big names in automotive gps units are Garmin, TomTom, Magellan, and to a lesser extent Lowrance.

De Lorme is a privately held company so there is little public insight on how it operates.  One way is to take a look at court records. I bring these up because of the reference of mapping products.

http://www.delorme.com/


DeLorme has come back into gps receiver-laptop market after settling out of court with Rand Mc Nally for copyright infringement.  After the settlement DeLorme sued its insurance carriers for not paying it’s legal cost in the battle with Rand Mc Nally.  The Court found that De Lorme had infringed on the Rand Mc Nally copyright and under the terms of the liability policy the insurance companies were required to pay the DeLorme legal cost.

DeLorme bid on a contract with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.  It was a partnership contract between NOAA and the successful bidder.  The purpose of such a contract is to reduce cost to the government, and in turn the successful bidder will have access to the finished data for a period time ahead of the competition.

DeLorme lost the bid and it was awarded to another firm.  DeLorme then submitted a Freedom of Information request for the future data that was going to be produced under the terms of the contract.

NOAA denied the request and cited a number reasons why they had denied the request.
DeLorme next sued NOAA in Federal Court.  The Court found against DeLorme based on the reason of denial given by NOAA, and the terms of the partnership contract with the successful bidder.  The Court stated the data would enter the public domain in a five-year period and would be subject to a Freedom of Information Request.

It would have been interesting to see the DeLorme reaction of such a request if the shoe had been on the other foot and DeLorme the successful bidder.

I have early versions of De Lorme software loaded in my Laptop and tower.  I used the software on an emergency incident a few years ago, and it showed it’s potential.  I see that De Lorme has now created a software package for emergency responders.
 
Magellan is the number two provider of gps units.  Magellan like Garmin offers some specialized gps units for the European market.  Magellan products target the automotive and handheld gps market.  A few years back Magellan was number one in sales.

http://www.magellangps.com/products/

http://www.magellangps.com/products/software.asp

Lowrance falls into the distant number three slot in the handheld market, but it is strong in the Marine market, and aircraft navigation market with some of its brands.

http://www.lowrance.com/

http://www.lowrance.com/Products/Mapping/

Bushnell is in the GPS market place and when comparing features it would be interesting to do a side by test with the De Lorme PN-20.  It appears that Bushnell offer a few more models then DeLorme.  I wonder who will sue whom?

http://www.bushnell.com/gps/gps.cfm?section=GPS

There are other manufacture of gps or sellers of re-branded gps units that are made by a major player. 

Garmin is the number one seller of gps units in the world.  Garmin sells handheld, marine, and aviation gps units.  Aviation units and software sold by Garmin and Lowrance are certified for aircraft use and aircraft type.  This equipment is designed to put an approaching aircraft at the end of the correct runway after taking off hundreds of miles away.  This is what WAAS is all about.  http://www.garmin.com/garmin/cms/site/us/intheair/

Garmin produces a lot of different handheld gps models from the basic to the mapping models.  Garmin also produces an in-depth array of marine fishfinders, sounders, and charters. 
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=132

Garmin’s mapping software encompasses more locations on earth then any other manufactures.  The criticism has been offered regarding Garmin having another party build its maps.  Does Ford and Chevy manufacture the tires, and all other parts what go into their cars?
http://www8.garmin.com/cartography/

I can travel the World with my Garmin 76Cx and have a couple 2GB maps that will fill many of my mapping needs.  Garmin has agreements with third party developers who have access to Garmin’s code and develop maps for different parts of the world.

http://www8.garmin.com/cartography/mpc/

Lloyd mention complaints about how difficult it was to use Garmin software, here is a good tutorial to get you started.

http://www8.garmin.com/cartography/mapsourceTutorial.html

If one of my grandkids were heading to Iraq I would look at buying them one of these Garmin models with preloaded maps.

http://gpsworldsupply.com/gps_world_supply.php?step=category&catNum=10


Garmin handheld units have dominated the focus of training for Federal Wildland Fire fighters using gps.  http://www.nps.gov/gis/gps/gps4ics.html

http://www.fs.fed.us/database/gps/gpsequip/documents/garqs60c.doc

Google Earth Plus allows owners of Magellan and Garmin gps units to down loaded their waypoints, tracks, and routes onto the satellite image.  I have done this a number of times and then e-mailed the image to a friend.

Frankly I would like to hear about how the PN-20 operates and information regarding which will be helpful to others when they purchase a PN-20.  Gives us the details on battery life, and navigating with the PN-20.  Does it auto route?

Unfortunately I cannot afford to run out and buy a bunch of different brand or models of gps units.  Hopefully our members will share their experience with the gps units they own, no matter what the brand and model.  There are a lot of older model gps units in the hands of our outdoor friends and partners.  Do not be afraid to offer impute or ask a question.  Garmin, and some other manufactures have their manuals available on line and can be downloaded. 

While I am a strong advocate of mapping gps units, and gps without a map of a certain area has a lot of value.  I do not have maps installed in the gps/fishfinder on my boat.  I would have love to had any gps that would create a waypoint with me in the Sea of Cortez when setting over a bottom fish hot spot.

A gps is a tool that requires practice, in bad weather you can set in your living room learning the function, when it suits you a walk around the block can become a train session, most of our hunting seasons have passed by in the following months you can get the benefit of a walk woods, gps training, scouting for game and a workout.


There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.

Offline deltecs

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Re: a DeLorme update
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2008, 11:52:05 AM »
The Topo maps transferred by the data card are not the problem, the Blue Water charts are.  My Garmin 178 sounder/chartplotter will not access the chart data downloaded from a non Garmin data card reader/writer.  Why, I don't know.  Most marine interface equipment will use NEMA 0183 format, so can Garmin, for data exchange.  However, each manufacturer of the input/output connection makes its own configuration and severely limits connections to other brands.  This is the fault I find with all of them.  Also, the costs of additional proprietary cables, data cards, connectors, and unlock codes for the areas desired, are very high compared to Topo interfacing. 
Greg lost his battle with cancer last week on April 2nd 2009. RIP Greg. We miss you.

Greg
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Opinion(s) are expressly mine alone and do not necessarily agree with those of GB or GBO mgmt.

Offline Martlet

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Re: a DeLorme update
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2008, 06:54:54 AM »
I've always been a "Garmin Guy".  I have numerous Garmin GPS units that I love.  However, nothing compares to my DeLorme.  The unit is incredible.   I was a little disappointed with the battery life, and emailed them to say so.  A week later I had a brand new battery, home charger, and car charger in my mailbox.  A few months later, another DeLorme package appeared in my box.  Apparently they had updated their software.  Since I hadn't had my unit long, they sent me the new software, and another 100 dollars worth of free downloads, free of charge.

This is easily the best GPS I've owned for hunting/fishing/hiking.  The customer service is just icing on the cake.

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: a DeLorme update
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2008, 08:36:50 AM »
Martlet hopefully you and Lloyd get us up to speed on the PN-20.  I am pleased to here about the outstanding customer support.

Does the unit have a track and track back function?  How many tracks can you save?  Can you create tracks in different colors?  Example you are on a big buck track in and area and you want to display it on your screen.  From an earlier hunt in the same area you generated a track.  Can you display one in red and another in green?

Is the satellite view from directly overhead or can you tilt it similar to what you can do with Google Earth?  How does the image compare with the image produced with the image provide by the latest Google Earth update.

There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.

Offline Martlet

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Re: a DeLorme update
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2008, 09:01:21 AM »
Martlet hopefully you and Lloyd get us up to speed on the PN-20.  I am pleased to here about the outstanding customer support.

Does the unit have a track and track back function?  How many tracks can you save?  Can you create tracks in different colors?  Example you are on a big buck track in and area and you want to display it on your screen.  From an earlier hunt in the same area you generated a track.  Can you display one in red and another in green?

Is the satellite view from directly overhead or can you tilt it similar to what you can do with Google Earth?  How does the image compare with the image produced with the image provide by the latest Google Earth update.



As a disclaimer, I've only used this for one season.  I'm also not a "guru", meaning I use it as I need, and don't play around with all the features, there are far too many.  But, to answer your questions:

The unit does have track and track back functions.  It also has an alarm that you can turn on to let you know if you get off track.  When discussing tracks and waypoints, it's important to note that the unit also has a mapping program for the PC.  You can store 1000 waypoints on the unit and 10 tracks (for a total of 10,000 waypoints).  HOWEVER, you can transfer these to the PC when you get home, then start again with your unit in the field.  I've used this while pheasant or deer hunting, found a great spot for duck hunting or a tree stand, marked it, then saved it on my PC.  I clear my unit, then add them back when I'm doing that type of hunting.  You could also save them to your memory card.  I haven't seen a feature to let you change colors, but I'll dig it out later and see if it has one.

The satellite imagery is similar, or the same, as Google Earth as far as I can tell.  Again, I don't use Google Earth often.  On the PC you can tilt and manipulate the image.  Again, I haven't noticed the ability to do the same once you transfer it to the unit, but I'll play around with it later to check it out.   

I rely mostly on the USGS maps, since satellite and aerial photos don't show elevations as well.  I really love the USGS maps, particularly here in MA where the hunting areas are congested.  The unit has a feature to measure distance.  I can check my position, then measure the distance to a road or house visible on the USGS maps.  That keeps me outside the safe shooting minimums. 

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: a DeLorme update
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2008, 04:26:47 PM »
like i said im a dummy when it comes to these things but what i think is neat is you can sit at home on the computer with the topo program downloaded and then buy areal photos and sat photos of your hunting area and basical scout for new deer stand locations sitting in the living room and down load them into your unit and find them. Looking at areals of our camp area ive allready found two small fields that i didnt even know existed and would not have shown as field using just the topo program.
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