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Author Topic: Out-of-the-Box Accurate: 10/22, CZ452 or TOZ-78 (Winchester Wildcat) ?  (Read 2755 times)

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Offline jmichna

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Out-of-the-Box Accurate: 10/22, CZ452 or TOZ-78 (Winchester Wildcat) ?
« on: November 18, 2007, 09:22:20 AM »
I'm new to this forum, and I have spent some time doing searches and scanning several forums' threads, but I can't seem to find what I'm looking for.
I'm sort of overwhelmed at the amount of information and opinions now available on .22s in general, and the 10/22 in particular.

First, some quick background... owned and shot a 10/22 carbine and a Mossberg 346KC bolt action back in late '60s/early '70s. Casual target shooting and plinking... some squirrels, rabbits from time to time. Used iron sights on both .22s. Didn't really like the sites on my 10/22 back then. Vision problem developed in my right (aiming) eye, gave up shooting in '70s, haven't touched a gun in 30 years. Am having eye surgery at end of November which will correct (finally) the vision problem. Now that I will be able to see again, I want to start shooting again.

My question boils down to this:
Under a limited budget (less than $300) what is the most accurate .22, either bolt or semi-auto out-of-the-box? I'm certainly not expecting competition match accuracy, but a darn good field gun shooter.

I would consider adding a decent 'scope .22-suitable for 50 yards, or replace stock sights with good aperture site if that seems to make more sense. I also can appreciate that different ammo can positively or negatively affect accuracy. At least for the present, I don't want to get involved in modding the gun (heck, I've been modding PCs for almost twenty years, and that can be a $$$ sinkhole). Hence, my reason for best shooter out-of-the-box.

Based on info I've read on this forum and other rimfire forums, I'm considering the CZ452 Trainer and the TOZ-78 (Winchester Wildcat)... how do you think these two bolt actions compare? For what it's worth, it seems that the TOZ-78 (Winchester Wildcat) is darn close in accuracy to the CZ452 and significantly less money.

Thanks for all opinions and advice given!
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Offline Snowshoe

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Re: Out-of-the-Box Accurate: 10/22, CZ452 or TOZ-78 (Winchester Wildcat) ?
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2007, 01:27:20 PM »
Why not check out the used market?  I have an old North American Arms Grizzly that was made in the 50's and it shoots as good as I can. I have no problem putting all bullets into one ragged hole at 50 yards. There are a lot of old accurate rifles around, it just takes some looking.
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Offline ironglow

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Re: Out-of-the-Box Accurate: 10/22, CZ452 or TOZ-78 (Winchester Wildcat) ?
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2007, 02:01:19 PM »
  I own or have owned all the models you mentioned except the TOZ.
 
  My CZ is probably more accurate than most of my .22s, and i have little doubt it is more accurate than the TOZ..especially after seeing some of the TOZ owner's posts.
  My Marlin 880SQ is so close to the CZ it is like one day the CZ is best while another the 880SQ is best..CZ has a slight edge. Coming in close to them is the Marlin 7000 auto that I just gave my grandson.
  My CZ out shoots my Anschutz.
  I have an original "first year of production" 10/22 that shoots remarkably well..but I have not seen later examples shoot nearly so good. As far as .22 autos go, the 10/22 seems to be the most forgiving and trouble free action (IMO,UNTIL you start modifying them).
  Today, for a reasonable price the Marlin and Savage 22s are arguably "best out of the box" for accuracy and in my experience, today's Marlin 60 will almost invariably out shoot the 10/22 for accuracy..the 795 being the same rifle with clip magazine. You could probably get a Marlin model 60 in stainless with a laminated stock for about the 10/22 starting price. My model 60 & 7000 were remarkably trouble free as long as they were kept reasonably clean.
  The Marlin 60 and starts at about $140 at Walmart while the Savage auto runs around $110 at the same place. I have not owned a Savage auto, so I cannot comment on function,but have good reports of it's accuracy.

  The very plain-Jane CZ 513 basic with plain hardwood stock lists at $266, so at many places $235 should be possible..same Mauser like action and reliably outstanding accuracy.

    You will find forum headings here on GBs that feature the various brands..a good indicator is to  visit each one you are interested in and hear what owners of the various makes are saying.
 
   Hope this helps
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Offline coyotejoe

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Re: Out-of-the-Box Accurate: 10/22, CZ452 or TOZ-78 (Winchester Wildcat) ?
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2007, 04:43:50 AM »
I don't think you can beat CZ for the money and if you are thinking of shooting open sights then CZ is certainly the way to go, the factory supplied open sights on my CZ trainer are excellent. Most .22s, in fact most new rifles if they come with open sights at all, have just the cheapest and flimsiest of open sights and those being of the poorest design.
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Offline FourBee

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Re: Out-of-the-Box Accurate: 10/22, CZ452 or TOZ-78 (Winchester Wildcat) ?
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2007, 10:56:27 AM »
Hey jmichna:
 :D   When I bought my CZ Trainer back in '95', I kept this target that was packed in the box with the rifle.     The rifle was sighted in with its iron sights.   I agree with coyotejoe, a 452 is hard to beat.

LG

 
     
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Offline trotterlg

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Re: Out-of-the-Box Accurate: 10/22, CZ452 or TOZ-78 (Winchester Wildcat) ?
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2007, 02:47:13 PM »
I would also look at the used market, one of the finest bolt action 22's ever made is the Remington 541 or 542 or the newer 581 or 582.  These have a rear locking 6 lug action with a 60 degree bolt throw.  They come in both tube feed and magazine feed (thus the 581 or 582 designation).  These were high end rifles when they were built and most you will find were kept very well.  This is one of my 581's.  Larry

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Offline ironglow

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Re: Out-of-the-Box Accurate: 10/22, CZ452 or TOZ-78 (Winchester Wildcat) ?
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2007, 04:27:18 PM »
  trotter;
  Guess I'll never know why Remington ever dropped the 581 series..then came out with the VIPER !!!

  Fourbee & Coyotejoe;

   You are right on with those beautiful, stock iron sights on the CZs . My Special..( like a Lux but with checkered hardwood) has those..but alas..my aged eyes require a scope..

....But those sights are a work of art..

 Below see;

   CZ 513 basic same quality steel paarts a simple hardwood stock..MSRP $266..should get it for somewhat less

   Marlin model 60 basic..about $130 at Walmart

        
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Offline trotterlg

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Re: Out-of-the-Box Accurate: 10/22, CZ452 or TOZ-78 (Winchester Wildcat) ?
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2007, 05:00:13 PM »
I think the Remington 581/582 series was just too expensive to build.  They really are a work of art, the action is amazing.  I was at a gun show the other day and a guy had 3 perfect ones, all left handed!  Wanted $350 each, I think the RH ones are usually about $200 to $250.  Larry
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Offline ironglow

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Re: Out-of-the-Box Accurate: 10/22, CZ452 or TOZ-78 (Winchester Wildcat) ?
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2007, 05:05:07 PM »
 You're probably right, that artillery style bolt lockup was probably costly to make..
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Offline trotterlg

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Re: Out-of-the-Box Accurate: 10/22, CZ452 or TOZ-78 (Winchester Wildcat) ?
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2007, 05:35:09 PM »
jmichna:  Sorry I hijacked your thread, but do take a look at the used market.  Lots of really fine designs have been dropped because of the workmanship it took to build them.  Some of the old stuff has a quality that just isn't built any more unless you spend some really big bucks.  Larry
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Offline ironglow

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Re: Out-of-the-Box Accurate: 10/22, CZ452 or TOZ-78 (Winchester Wildcat) ?
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2007, 12:34:02 PM »
  A very nice rifle that is hard to find but a very accurate one..

   The model 320 Winchester..
  My wife bought me one for Christmas in the early to mid 70s. I always liked the way it was made and the inherent accuracy of it.
  I gave it to my son one day a few years ago and tried to get an extra mag for him.I remembered that the rifle was designed and
  manufactured in Australia, when I started surfing the web.
     I found no new mags for it (5 round original)..but a couple times I was told to get a Kimber magazine. Searching further, I found
  that the rifle was designed by the same man who moved to the states and started building Kimber .22s !

   Guess I should not be surprised that the little 320 was accurate..

   BTW: If anyone has a 320 Winchester and needs a magazine, I see that Cheaper Than Dirt has new mfg 10 round models... $25
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Offline NONYA

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Re: Out-of-the-Box Accurate: 10/22, CZ452 or TOZ-78 (Winchester Wildcat) ?
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2007, 01:55:53 PM »
 hands down the CZ
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Offline TLARbb

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Re: Out-of-the-Box Accurate: 10/22, CZ452 or TOZ-78 (Winchester Wildcat) ?
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2007, 09:12:34 AM »
Got to agree with Nonya.  The CZ at just under $300 for the trainer, just cannot be beat in today's market.  However, bot Marlin and Savage a making some pretty decent .22 bolts for around $200.  But, they weren't in your short list.  The TOZ has a pretty nice reputation, but I have not personally seen one in the flesh. 

EJ
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