Author Topic: Is there a 45 Colt barrel to the Handi Rifle anywere...? (Read 1656 times)

JohnnySweden · « **on:** November 04, 2007, 06:16:11 AM »

Does H&R or anybody from the aftermarket offer a 45 Colt barrel for the Handi Rifle?

Looking for something that can be used for 460SW/454 Casull, 45 (Long) Colt and the 410 Bore shotgun.

What about changing barrels on Handi Rifles, are they just to swap like barrels on a 1022 or does they have to be matched to the unique receiver by a gunsmith?

Thanks..

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** November 04, 2007, 06:32:08 AM »

H&R offers the 45 Colt carbine which could be rechambered to Casull or 460S&W. I don't know if I'd feed it a constand diet of full pressure 460 loads, but as soon as 4D offers a 460 reamer rental, I'll be having mine rechambered.

Tim

http://hr1871.com/Firearms/Rifles/buffalo.aspx

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,127218.msg1098457259.html#msg1098457259

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #2 on:** November 04, 2007, 06:46:21 AM »

Oh boy. Johnny you got lots of reading to do . Short answer first. YES they do as a matter of fact I just got one yesterday in the mail and am going to the range today with it .The one I got is 20" rifled 45/410 that has a screw in choke so you can use 410 shot and most of what I have heard about the shot pattern is that it is short range at best but then I have not worked up anything yet. I have not done a lot of intense research yet for loads and have not taken any notes from the few thing I have asked but here are a few... I am no guru on this stuff so nothing I say is set in stone and you need to research for yourself. This is some of the thoughts of what I might want to try. First I have a bunch of Russian Silver Bear 97 grain slug all steel non re loadable 410 ammo I want to see what can be done with that also I reload and I am gonna get some all brass 410 cases to work with I have been told I think 444 brass will also work and want to work with some cast bullets for that and the 45 colt 454 casull Have not looked at the 460.The bbl I have can be bought as whole gun in the survivor model or I think you can get it from the accessory bbl program along with a 45 colt carbine bbl but I don't think the carbine bbl will except the 410 shell because of the chamber length and it does not have the choke to stop the shot spin. The BIG thing is you can only load to proper safe pressures. Read the FAQ'S at the top of the page and it shows all bbl that H&R offers and what guns they will go on. Good luck Kurt

JohnnySweden · « **Reply #3 on:** November 04, 2007, 06:48:42 AM »

Thank you for some very useful links.

So, how do one change the barrel, just slip it on and off or does they have to be fitted in some special manner..?

Thank you.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** November 04, 2007, 06:59:24 AM »

Unfortunately, the accessory barrel program is only for US residents, you'd have to buy a complete firearm in the Survivor, but it comes on an SB1 shotgun frame which would be unsuitable for use with the higher pressure Casull and 460 S&W cartridges. As Kurt said, the 45 Colt Carbine barrel can't be used with .410 shotshells. The big problem with the 410/45 Survivor barrel is it doesn't come with sights and isn't drilled and tapped for a scope mount, just has a shotgun bead. Even those that have put scopes on them have complained of the poor accuracy with Colt ammo, there are numerous posts on the topic.

Tim

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 04, 2007, 07:18:55 AM »

JohnnySweden

You are at a disadvantage not being able to use the barrel acc. program so you are going to find a used barrel or buy the whole rifle . if you can find a used one it may need to be fitted to your frame , just about any good gunsmith can do this or you can do it yourself with the info in the FAQs under barrel fitting .

Yes for the most part they have to be mated to a frame , i do have some that will fit more than one frame .

The down side to the 45LC / 410 barrel is that there is such a large jump for the colt to reach the rifling it some times does not shoot groups well and as for the 45 carbine barrel it will not chamber 410 shells .

stimpy

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #6 on:** November 04, 2007, 07:50:19 AM »

The bbl that I got from another member has been drilled and tapped for scope and I have put a 2.5x32 scope on it my initial hope for this bbl is 2"or less at 50 yards and my thoughts of using other than 45 colt brass is to work on eliminating or at least shortening the bullet jump in the long throat don't have a lot of interest in working for high velocity (I have other barrels made for that) but more to hard short range thump-er. Johnny I really feel for you folks that don't have the freedom or arms that we enjoy and I sure wish alot of these guys here in the US would open thier eyes to what the liberal are trying to do here. Kurt

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 04, 2007, 10:28:59 AM »

Yes you can purchase a 22" 45 Long Colt barrel through H&R. You must send in your SB2 frame to H&R for fitting. It is part number 45LC, it comes with iron sights and is tapped for a scope rail. As has been pointed out already you have to be resident of the USA to send it in for a barrel fitting.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #8 on:** November 04, 2007, 10:32:19 AM »

Ummm, make that 20", that's another one of the errors on the accessory barrel list .

Tim

http://hr1871.com/Firearms/Rifles/buffalo.aspx

JohnnySweden · « **Reply #9 on:** November 04, 2007, 10:52:51 AM »

All right, I think I get the picture here...

I guess the best thing is to try getting a new barrel from the official importer in Sweden, he have the proper permit in order to import a barrel into the country in a legal manner. The a gunsmith might be able to make the fitting into my frame.

The reason for these thoughts is that we are limited to just four firearms here in Sweden, without and special permit that are hard to get. I already have two airguns on each permit and one rimfire (1022), making the Handi Rifle my last rifle.

The only simple way around this is to have a barrel exchange, by doing this I can have the same rifle but still a few more calibers to choose from. A separate barrel require a permit but it is not counted into the four firearms limit.

Shotguns are kind of tricky to get permits for but the 410 bore doesn't count as a shotgun since they view it as calibre 45 gun (-barrel).

With the 22 rimfire, the 22 Hornet and an additional 45 Colt/454 Casull I have a full range with everything from small targets into big game, with a shotgun use as a bonus feature.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** November 04, 2007, 10:56:56 AM »

You won't be able to shoot 45Colt +p or Casull loads on your old frame, they aren't made for those kind of pressures, should be fine for standard Colt loads.

You'll need a modern SB2 frame for the high pressure loads.

Tim

JohnnySweden · « **Reply #11 on:** November 04, 2007, 11:32:37 AM »

I see..

So I'm limited to 45 Colt but its still pretty good for larger animals at short range where the Hornet is kind of narrow.
A big slow moving 250 grain bullet at 950 fps with some 500 ft/lbs must be useful for roe deer and similar..?

Can I combine the 45 Colt with the 410 bore shotgun?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #12 on:** November 04, 2007, 12:15:53 PM »

There are two barrels that will shoot 45 Colt, the Survivor barrel that is 410 or 45 Colt that Kurt is using, or the 45 Colt Carbine barrel that is only for the colt cartridge. The other option would be to get the 45 Colt Carbine barrel AND a .410 shotgun barrel, then you'd have the best of both worlds, you wouldn't be stuck with the poor 45 Colt accuracy of the 410/45 barrel and you could shoot .410 shells in the .410 barrel.

Tim

http://hr1871.com/Firearms/ShotgunsAndRifles/survivor.aspx

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 04, 2007, 01:26:04 PM »

I got my info on the 22" 45 Long Colt barrel right off the Barrel Accessory Program order form

quickdtoo · « **Reply #14 on:** November 04, 2007, 01:33:15 PM »

Does that surprise you that it's wrong too?

At least it's consistent with the online accessory barrel list.

Tim

billy_56081 · « **Reply #15 on:** November 04, 2007, 02:02:08 PM »

Johnny. If you can fin a shotgun donor barrel your gunsmith may be able to use it for the underlug and stub a barrel in. TrotterLG has done a few of these as have others and may be willing to give some technical assistance one doing one. Or you could try to get Sweden to join the USA as our 51rst state. We'd be glad to have ya.

JohnnySweden · « **Reply #16 on:** November 04, 2007, 10:22:50 PM »

The main problem is here that the shotgun is considered a "section one, dangerous weapon" and require a certain permit that I do not have.

To get the permit I must attend a 60 hour course, costing $500 and pass three different tests.

Then its valid for all kind of shotguns.

My present permit covers 4 guns in all types of rifles up to the 30-30 caliber (including all pistol calibers but in rifles only).

The 410 bore is a legal exception because you can get you hand on one of those by buying a rifle barrel that fit the 410 shell, but none special made for the 410.

A 410 gun barrel that is not a special 410 shotgun barrel can also be owned in 18 inch length, counted as minimum rifle length, a nice touch on the small Handi Rifle. A normal shotgun barrel must be at least 24 inch long.

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #17 on:** November 05, 2007, 05:42:26 AM »

Johnny I think what you are looking for or what to me would work best for you is the Survivor 45/410 model with the rifled barrel and the screw in shot choke .Using the brass I mentioned to work on accuracy .Problem is it only comes on a SB1 action and you will need to be very careful when loading because of the lower pressures of the SB1(same as your Hornet) You could load it heavier if you had a SB2 action. Not knowing all the international laws but if you could find a dealer in Sweden and the US who could do this... you could have your dealer send your action to US dealer who could send your action to NEF and get the 45/410 barrel fitted to your action .Problem again is this may take 6 month or more to pull off but it would not add to your gun laws gun count I don't think. Just a thought. Kurt

quickdtoo · « **Reply #18 on:** November 05, 2007, 05:50:19 AM »

Being limited on the number of frames(firearms) Johnny can own is the issue, so buying another SB2 frame isn't an option. H&R won't touch the 1980 Topper 58 frame, so sending it in isn't an option even if the logistics could be arranged. $:-\$

Tim

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #19 on:** November 05, 2007, 05:57:07 AM »

OOPs my bad with all the hoops to jump thru on this one I forgot he's got the fine old 58. Back to square 1. That just about means only option is the complete Survivor 45/410 gun. Kurt

JohnnySweden · « **Reply #20 on:** November 05, 2007, 07:09:04 AM »

This 58 frame of mine, what can you gentlemen tell me about it...?

Is it strong or weak, what kind of calibers can it handle?

Is it a "good" frame or a "bad" frame...?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #21 on:** November 05, 2007, 07:52:49 AM »

The older frames are said to be made of cast iron or ductile iron which isn't as strong as a modern frame. Current production SB2 rifle frames are heat treated investment cast alloy, SB1 shotgun frames are weaker, and made differently, dunno exactly what they are, but the appearance is much different as can be seen in the FAQs comparison pics. H&R won't fit any high pressure barrel to any SB2 frame made before 1999, which would be an NN or HN frame, those barrels are marked with an asterisk in the accessory barrel list. As far as the old H&R Topper frames, they won't fit any barrels to any frame made prior to 1987. Modern barrels may or may not fit on the old H&R frames, I tried some barrels on a Topper 158 I had for a while, they wouldn't come close to fitting, but other members have been able to fit barrels to them.

The old H&Rs came in several different rifle chamberings, 22Jet, Hornet, 30-30, 357mag, 44mag, 45-70, to name some of them, all relatively low intensity rounds.

Also in the FAQs, there's a link to a post by a member who bought a 1940 H&R that someone had put a .223 Remington barrel on, it didn't have a happy ending for the firearm, but fortunately, the owner wasn't injured.

Tim

JohnnySweden · « **Reply #22 on:** November 05, 2007, 10:04:24 AM »

So its a iron frame anyway..?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #23 on:** November 05, 2007, 10:07:07 AM »

Of some sort.

JohnnySweden · « **Reply #24 on:** November 05, 2007, 10:18:13 AM »

I thought it was some kind of alu alloy, similar to the 1022...?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #25 on:** November 05, 2007, 10:25:10 AM »

Nope.

Lazermule · « **Reply #26 on:** January 05, 2008, 03:37:06 AM »

I went round and round with this topic a few months ago and just kind of came to the conclusion that there isn't a Handi that will fit the needs that I was looking to fill. I did order in a Survivor in 45/410 but when it came in I saw it was not drilled and tapped for a scope and it didn't look heavy enough made for what I wanted to do.

What I wanted was a 45 colt Handi for my son in all weather finish. I figured I could later ream it to 454 for some bigger game hunting. When I saw the 45/410 survivor I knew that this was not that gun as it had the smaller action and such.

I think the route I will take is to get a handi in 45/70 synthetic and order a 45lc barrel for it. I really don't care for it to shoot 410 or not, I'd rather have the accuracy in the 45lc. Maybe someday they will offer a 454 barrel and I wouldn't have to ream my own...

Lazer