the difference between hunting and self defence

[slim rem 7]

  the most common shot attempted is an heart lung shot when you are doing either..
   if i make a good shot on an deer with my 30 06 and 180 grn partition,, he may still run 50 or more yds..don t seem much difference between that and say a good chest shot on a man with a dirty harry type .357mag . and 180grn self defence rd..either way the object of the shot may be able to continue for a short time, some of the time....it just matters a whole lot more in self defence than in hunting..so i guess the only choice is to plan to shoot at least
  3 times or more in defence .. i was just thinking about it some yesterday.. it might change how i practice...of course you would need to be mindful of the court room and if he fell real quik ,,back off of the multple shots..
   i  was off yesterday and any activities got rained out.. so the thought came up..
  too much thinking time mabe
 

[torpedoman]

 Just empty the clip remember you are in fear of your life what better proof could there be than you emptied the clip

[Graybeard]

Humans unless high on dope just don't have the will to live that animals do. Shoot most humans and they will cease whatever they are doing and kinda like the animals might run away. Not all of course fit that mould just like not all animals run but some fall to the shot. Some humans will keep coming at you even if not high on drugs.

[Ghugly]

A big difference that doesn't get mentioned enough is, most all game run around naked and you have the opportunity to take the shot or wait for a better one.  You are also after, for the most part, a particular type of animal so you can match your cartridge to the animal.  A human will probably be wearing some sort of clothing (perhaps a lot of clothing, perhaps not) and will probably not allow you to choose your shot.  Your bullet may well be required to pass through multiple layers of clothing, bone, and who knows what before ever penetrating to a vital area.  All this while your foe is attacking you (if he isn't, then it's probably murder and not a suitable discussion for this forum).

[rockbilly]

There is no way to determine how a human will react to being shot.  In a combat situation, I witnessed  some men fall and refuse to do anything when suffering a simple flesh wound, others that had wounds that were severe, and in some cases life threatening, attempt to continue fighting and get themselves to safety..  The desire to live, and  adrenaline are key in how a person reacts.

[AtlLaw]

Once again I got to agree with Bill.  Most people stop their aggressive actions with one body shot.  If they're enraged enough they may keep coming even if they're dead, they just don't know it.  If they're on drugs, all bets are off.  Just remember, if you are justified in using deadly force, keep shooting until the aggression stops.

[Win 73]

A big difference is in hunting you WANT to kill.  In self defense, you NEED to stop.

[Mohawk]

Great answers and I agree. People ain't animals. Animals can withstand MUCH MUCH MUCH more tauma than any human could conceive. Thus more power is recommended when hunting as opposed to self defense against a human. A deer can go ALONG way with a broken hip. A well placed shot against a knife weilding attacker to his hip and he stands no more with any pistol cartridge.

[Win 73]

I agree that a deer can go a long way after being shot.  Two seasons ago I shot a doe with my 1873 Winchester.  I know the .38-40 is not a powerful cartridge.  I waited for a good shot.  I got a standing broadside shot at 40 yards.  I was in a permanent stand and was able to brace the rifle.  The rifle is zeroed for 50 yards.  So I know I put the slug right where I wanted to in the heart/lung area.  My buddy and I trailed that deer for over 500 yards bleeding heavily.  We were amazed that it could go that far.  We hunted for over two hours but could not find it.

[Dave in WV]

When hunting you are looking for game to shoot/kill.  You are ready to shoot and it's already on your mind to do so. In self defense situation, self defense is on your mind but that's not why you are out and about. You have less time (probably none) to decide about if there's a back stop and is it clear behind your target. You carry a firearm that's not the optimum for the task and not likely have time for precision in taking the shot/s.

[Empty Quiver]

While hunting non dangerous game you have time to let the bullet do its job. Thirty seconds is a long time if your attacker is pulling a trigger or slashing you with a box cutter. Shoot until agression ceases be it one missed shot or two mag dumps. When being addressed as Defendant you want to be on the right side of the law, when maggot stops you stop, even if in your opinion he could use a finishing shot to ease suffering.

[LEO]

Hunting for probably everyone on this board is a sport, even though probably most enjoy eating the game they harvest but ultimately it is a sport.  If you don't get it right you will probably get another chance to harvest a game animal.  In self defense you literally have the rest of your life or the persons life you are attempting to protect, to stop the attacker from whatever they are doing so obviously the cost of failure is much higher.  Also in hunting as long as the animal is legal and you  have the proper permits etc, when you have made the shot then the only thing you have to worry about is processing your game.  In self defense even after you have made the shot and it was a justified shooting you still have a lot of legal hoops to jump through.

[Mohawk]

Hunting for probably everyone on this board is a sport, even though probably most enjoy eating the game they harvest but ultimately it is a sport.  If you don't get it right you will probably get another chance to harvest a game animal.  In self defense you literally have the rest of your life or the persons life you are attempting to protect, to stop the attacker from whatever they are doing so obviously the cost of failure is much higher.  Also in hunting as long as the animal is legal and you  have the proper permits etc, when you have made the shot then the only thing you have to worry about is processing your game.  In self defense even after you have made the shot and it was a justified shooting you still have a lot of legal hoops to jump through.

  Amen to that, LEO. And even if you get No Billed by Criminal Court , the civil process is brutal. I learned an old saying years ago, my dad was a lawman. One day you may protect a life, but that life did not protect your career.

[BullyDawg19]

ive always been taught to fire until the threat stops. if that means 1 shot - then fine. if that means 15 shots - so be it. i practice 2 to the chest and then 1 to the head if necessary. ive even started practicing double taps on deer when hunting. if he doesnt fall on the first one i prepare for a second when appropriate. gun up, sights on, finger off trigger till ready. if he stops - i pop him again.

[SHOOTALL]

Shoot until what ever made you shoot stops what ever it was that concerned you . PERIOD !
And they will take your gun in some places they will take all you own , so since you won't be shooting it for some time or maybe ever - hey shoot all the bullets this one last time ! empty the gun , just make sure all the targets are neutralized first ! bad form to empty the gun just to hear it go bang when the fight is still in full swing !

[Mohawk]

 Thank the Lord I have never had to use my firearm in the course of duty, or even off duty, but co-workers have and one thing seems prevailent. If a bad guy deserves one, then he deserves them all.

[win88]

This was posted on another forum. I thought it was very well done

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Call 911 IMMEDIATELY. If phone records show a call to your attorney first, that could be used to imply guilt. There is an old saying, "The first one to the courthouse wins." Believe it. You want your voice on that 911 tape, reporting the crime as a victim. Give the location, describe the actors and yourself and state that you were a victim of the attack.

Do NOT give them the story (I was coming out of...) or describe the events (I shot him...). Simply describe the scene and circumstances (assault, etc.) and ask for an ambulance if one is necessary ("the attacker has a gunshot wound"... NOT "I shot the attacker"). Tell them that you are no threat to the police when they arrive and you will cooperate fully. Once you have given the dispatcher all of the pertinent descriptions, HANG UP! They will want you to stay on the line. DON'T. You have already told them everything that you're going to tell them and you need your phone to call your attorney.

Simply state the fact that there was a shooting and you need an ambulance. Do not continue to give information to the dispatcher as that may come to haunt you. You will be on an adreneline rush and you do not desire to hang yourself before any investigation begins.

Call your attorney. Do not discuss any details on the phone, simply give them your name, where the incident occurred and that the police have been called. THEY WILL FIND YOU (hospital, jail, etc.). If you discuss any details on the phone, someone standing behind you can testify what they heard you say. Wait until you're in private with your attorney to go over the incident.

When the police arrive, do as commanded without hesitation and communicate what you are doing. Tell them you were attacked, tell them you will sign a complaint, point out any evidence and then say "I want my attorney and I do not consent to any searches." You may have to repeat this line several times, but do not be tempted to talk any further UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.


1. Remain at the scene and await the arrival of the police. Do not be in a threatening posture when they arrive. Do not have a gun in your hand. {Think about how you would look to a responding officer. If you think you would look like a threat, it is logical to think that they will see you the same way.}

2. Do not try and change the physical evidence at the scene. Trying to place a gun in the hands of an unarmed suspect will only get you into greater trouble. The level of forensic science in this new century will uncover such an unsophisticated attempt to alter evidence. The courts and a jury of your peers will be more understanding of an individual who killed in error, out of fear or panic, than a person who tries to tamper with evidence to make him or herself look innocent. Trying to make yourself look innocent just makes you look guilty. There is also a strong possibility that your assailant may have a previous history of conviction for violent crimes that will be in your favor even if you were mistaken about him being armed. Planting a weapon will serious negate this.

3. Do not say anything. The police may say that they need your statement to proceed with their investigation, but this is not true. Homicides are investigated every day with the most important witness being deceased.

* It is best to make a short statement such as, "He tried to kill me, and I had to shoot.” Then ask for a lawyer. There is nothing wrong with heading the police in the right direction, but don't say anything you are likely to regret. You have the right to remain silent and not incriminate yourself. Use it!

4. Ask for a lawyer. This is your right. Find a lawyer who understands the dynamics of use of force cases. Find out who the police in your area use and have his or her card on hand. You can do this by contacting the FOP or other police union in your area and ask who they use to defend their membership. Even if you are totally in the right, you will need to talk to a lawyer if for nothing else, to get your facts straight after the incident. You must remember that you will be coming down after an extreme adrenaline rush and will not be thinking clearly. Talking with a lawyer will help you get your story straight, as well as compose yourself, before you give the police an official statement. Remember that the police want the facts! It makes their investigation easier to pursue. By saying things that did not happen, even in error due to post incident stress will make their job much more difficult as it may send them in a wrong direction. They want you to be clear about what happened, as it will save them time. Get your facts straight before you make a statement. You may amend what you say later, but you will never totally change it.

Take it slow and be smart, you won't regret it!
 

[SHOOTALL]

its best to say you defended your self from an attack and with all respect will refrain from further commit until you have a lawyer present . this is what was stated in three different classes i have taken , all were the advice of legal people . it seemed important to them not to say shot or any other graphic term .

[slim rem 7]

just watched an reenactment of two troopers facing a guy with a knife..
  1st trooper hits him twice in the chest with a 40-45 auto.. 2nd trooper hits him
2 more times .. the 3rd shot cut his aorta and he falls.. i expect this was two very surprised troopers as this guy never stopped advancing on them..
  so some people may go down easier than animals but some may not..
  a man walks thru 2 chest shots ,,im gonna give him a dose of it up top side ..mabe 2 or three