Author Topic: The official 'ones we don't talk about' thread...  (Read 1191 times)

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Offline Terry C.

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The official 'ones we don't talk about' thread...
« on: January 07, 2008, 07:42:15 AM »
Victor's "What to do with this thing?" thread got me to thinking.

How many of us have something that they built before we gained the knowledge that we have now? Things that maybe bend, or even break some of our golden rules? Long since retired, for fear that they weren't such a great idea to begin with?


Well, here is my submission.

A little background first. A few years ago (before I joined GBO) we had a new roof put on the welding shop where I work, which is the oldest of our buildings. The new metal roof was built over the existing wooden roof. Holes were cut in the wooden roof for the new supports, which tied into the existing metal framework. This resulted in a double-roof, with a space between. This was great for insulation, this became the coolest place in our facility in the summer.

What was not so cool is that birds quickly discovered this space and soon we were infested with birds. Birds everywhere, all the time. flying in and out (there were a lot of places for the birds to get in) and doing what birds do.

I began scaring the bids at least once a day with improvised explosions (acet/oxy mix in a cup). Soon I got tired of this and decided to get a little more pro on the birds.

I needed a scare gun.


The scare gun began by first digging through my scrap to see what I had to work with. What I settled on was a drop of seamless mild steel tubing that we used to make hydraulic couplers. The length of the tube was determined by the length of the longest drop I had.

The tube was 1.125" OD x .625" ID. Yep, ¼" walls. Way under spec, but then at the time I was ignorant of such a rule. This gun was never EVER going to fire any projectile, just a mild BP charge, so by my reckoning I was good.

Then it was on to the computer.

I needed a base. That would be cut from a section of heavy H-beam.




The shape of the tube was determined from how it would relate to the base. Nothing fancy, just an undercut near the muzzle to form a slight ring, then tapered back about halfway to full diameter.

The rounded breech would be formed during the plugging process. A tight fitting rod was press in about ½" deep. The rod was welded into place and then trimmed off flush with the top of the weld. This resulted in a roughly rounded end that was dressed down in the lathe and polished. The vent was drilled, and the finished tube was about 6¼" long.




Finally the tube was centered up in the base and welded. The tube is elevated at 30°.




In the plans, the corners of the base are rounded and there are mounting bolt holes. The gun was pressed into service before this could be done. So the gun has a plain rectangular base with no holes.


It served well, belching much fire & smoke shots from its 5/8" bore! Typical load was 80 grains of FFg topped with a greased (Bore Butter) cleaning patch. In hindsight this seems excessive, but the little gun did itself proud. For some reason the noise from the acetylene bombs never really fazed the birds, but the BP shots (twice a day) scared the crap out'a them. Withing a about a month, our shop was considered "no birds land" and avoided like a cat farm.

It's only been fired a couple of times since, and not recently. I've been intending to paint it for years, and even went so far as to buy the paint (it's probably dried out now), but I never got around to it.

I think now that I'm off to rest from my hospital stay, this will be a good leisurely project.


So here it is, in all its glory. Battle tested and now retired.








The gun weighs 4 pounds 9 ounces, and is pretty stable. Even in soft grass it rocks back but doesn't go over.






Well, there it is. My closet skeleton. It'll probably never see another shot, but I'll NEVER get rid of it.


Who's next?

Offline Double D

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Re: The official 'ones we don't talk about' thread...
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2008, 08:47:43 AM »
Falls well with in the scope of this board...black powder signal gun.

Offline kevthebassman

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Re: The official 'ones we don't talk about' thread...
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2008, 05:28:29 AM »
Terry, just a little food for thought for you:

When we cleaned out my grandma's house after she passed on, we found an old 12g. Damascus barrel shotgun in my grandpa's closet that had belonged to his father or grandfather.  He had died fairly young (30 years before she did) but she never touched his closet or dresser.  This thing hadn't been fired in probably 80 years.  My first instinct when I found it was to take it out and make it belch fire again.  Luckily I  had enough sense to talk to a gunsmith first, otherwise it could have killed somebody.

I don't know how old you are or if you have kids, but I've heard horror stories about people having some sort of unfinished/non-shooting project like this that falls by the wayside.  Years pass by, and they pass on, and their kids or grandkids come into possession of that project sans knowledge about it.  It only takes one instance of somebody without your knowledge of safety trying to load up and fire a cannon like that for your pet project to turn into a tragedy, especially since you have other cannons that ARE safe to shoot.

Like I said, just food for thought.  I know I'm a bit of a worry wart and a party-pooper, but I'd hate to think of somebody 50 years from now stuffing a projectile down that bore and turning it into a pipe bomb.

Offline phalanx

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Re: The official 'ones we don't talk about' thread...
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2008, 06:43:52 AM »
Kevthebassman makes a good point , some time ago the Artilleryman had an article like this in a way.
Some guy had a half scale cannon he shot ,but he passed away and his grand kids got it.
The guy reloaded so he had powder on his bench and kept the BP locked in a locker.
The kids just grabbed some smokeless off the bench and used it in the cannon ,well you know what happened .
One of them was in intensive care for some time,the others including a girl were treated and released.
In this time i Command ,That you take the Secular to Jerusalem .
There you rid the Holy City of the Scourge of Islam , Make the streets run red with the Blood of those who wish to wash Israel and Christianity from the face of the Earth.
Constantine III

Offline Terry C.

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Re: The official 'ones we don't talk about' thread...
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2008, 03:14:25 AM »
Good points, all.

I've been giving the matter some thought, and I've reached a decision.

I went by the shop and got my stencils. Before the scare gun is painted and put away again, I will stamp a set of explicit warnings on the bottom.

It was either do this, or fill the chamber with lead, and that's something I don't want to do (at least not yet).

Offline kevthebassman

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Re: The official 'ones we don't talk about' thread...
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2008, 06:47:45 AM »
Good thinking Terry.  Better safe than sorry.

Offline MikeR C

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Re: The official 'ones we don't talk about' thread...
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2008, 08:36:47 AM »
I debated quite a while before I wrote this, but it is one of my pet peeves. Kevthebassman, I respectfully disagree, NOT better safe than sorry. All responsibility to think for ourselves is being taken away with this very attitude. The only way for TerryC to make it "safe" is to melt it down, and even then someone might drop it on their foot. If you fill the bore with lead it can be melted out, if you weld the vent it can be redrilled, if you weld a plate over the bore it can be turned off. When you finally get it fool proof, they will raise a better fool. If you don't believe this just search youtube and look at how creative they are with waterpipe and some kind of propellant. I have heard this same take on other subjects and it irritates me to no end. Think about it, this same attitude means you can no longer work on your car or truck, what if you have a heart attack when you are replacing a brake part and somebody then drives it after you're dead and has a wreck.
So, if it makes you feel better, stamp it, but if you think "Black Powder Only-Blank Loads Only" is going to stop the "Cool a CannonZ" from packing it half full of Bullseye and scrap metal I think you are dreaming. A sensible person will look into doing it right, and a fool will not heed your warning, so leave it alone or melt it down if you want it to be surely safe.
When we are eating steak with our fingers, 'cause the last sharp instrument in the world has been melted down to prevent someone sometime from hurting themselves with it don't blame me.
It's my opinion and I am entitled to it,
MikeR C

Offline Victor3

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Re: The official 'ones we don't talk about' thread...
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2008, 10:34:05 PM »
 Mike,

 I understand what you're saying - we can't make everything totally "safe." Dangerous and useful often go hand-in-hand. I wouldn't want to try to use a totally safe circular saw because it would be hand-cranked and use a rubber disk for a blade.

 Guns are dangerous. If they weren't, they wouldn't be good for anything. However, most of my modern centerfire/rimfire guns are marked with the caliber right there on the barrel. That's practical, and provides a measure of safety that I believe most can agree is prudent.

 I'm considering marking some of my cannons with load info because I think that is also prudent. It is not, in my opinion, something silly like McDonald's marking their coffee cups "Caution - Contents may be hot." We all know that coffee is usually hot. Not many know what a safe load for a given cannon is.

 Some people may not be able to be cured of ignorance, but at least they can sometimes be warned that they are in danger of doing something stupid that may kill them. Even real dummies often heed HIGH VOLTAGE signs. Not always, but often. If there were no warning posted, all would be toasted...
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

Sherlock Holmes

Offline kevthebassman

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Re: The official 'ones we don't talk about' thread...
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2008, 11:47:46 PM »
Mike, I know the feeling.  The only reason I would say that is that in addition to his signal cannon, Terry also has several other cannons that really shoot.  It only takes one time of someone getting confused between the two to kill somebody.  The somebody we would be talking about in this case wouldn't just be a random somebody off the street, it would be somebody with the same name and blood. 

Terry might not always be around to tell them, "Hey stupid, don't do that!"  But with 5 minutes and a little effort, he can give them a little warning, and for most people a little warning is enough.

I do understand your side of things, but I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: The official 'ones we don't talk about' thread...
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2008, 09:54:17 AM »
Agreeing to disagree is often a rational perspective.

We all agree that cannons can be dangerous.

We all agree that users MUST operate the responsibly.

We all agree that manufacturers/owners must be responsible to SOME extent is only reasonable.

How far - the discussion can go on a LONG time.

Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline phalanx

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Re: The official 'ones we don't talk about' thread...
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2008, 10:37:31 AM »
Having your powder locked up separate from  the smokeless is one step ,Also having your Kin all informed ,,
is another. Everyone living here knows what these are , and the cannon themselves are locked up in their own separate building. If something were to happen to me ,only the wife has keys to access any gun related items,and the cannon will all go to an Historical Society in Tenn.
I was lucky when i bought this place ,the previous owner was one of those  paranoid ,end of the world guys from the 60s.
He built a concrete bunker out side ,sub ground level  , 1/2 in steel door , 14x16 with only the roof exposed.
All the guns ,and reloading stuff is out there ,and the rifles and handguns are in a safe.
I keep a couple in the house ,,and the BP and everything pertaining to it ,is in a separate Magazine locked up according to County laws regarding anything over 50 pounds.
I know i lucked out ,but i wanted to live in the country , city life gets on my Nerves.
In the city close to here, you cant have more than 10 pounds of BP , I am sure where all of you guys live the laws vary on this.
Just my 2 cents worth ,but all powder needs to be under lock and key.
In this time i Command ,That you take the Secular to Jerusalem .
There you rid the Holy City of the Scourge of Islam , Make the streets run red with the Blood of those who wish to wash Israel and Christianity from the face of the Earth.
Constantine III

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: The official 'ones we don't talk about' thread...
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2008, 02:13:47 PM »
Organized.

Well thought through.

Well researched - local city/county laws.

Storage according to local ordinance.

You've got a grip on it!  (More so than most of us I'll wager.)

What about fire?  That's my greatest concern, as all my reloading stuff is on 3rd floor.

Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline kevthebassman

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Re: The official 'ones we don't talk about' thread...
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2008, 02:19:46 PM »
Sounds like you have things pretty well covered there. 

Offline phalanx

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Re: The official 'ones we don't talk about' thread...
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2008, 02:33:05 PM »
Cat Whisperer :
I didn't want to get off thread here , All local towns and county's most likely have an ordnance on dealing with this.
I wasn't aware of it until the man i buy my powder from told me.
I am sure most county mounties have no idea , but it is always safe to have your ducks in a row.
The law said any amount over 50 pounds has to be in a Magazine type enclosure ,with blast wall , 50 yards minimum from any occupied dwelling.
Possession is limited to 350 pounds then requiring the magazine to be at 150 yards ,and inspected.
I don't know what your set up is, but in my bunker and my magazine i bought some of those Halon extinguishers,and mounted them in the roof.
This is not good in a house as Halon can kill you also.
In this time i Command ,That you take the Secular to Jerusalem .
There you rid the Holy City of the Scourge of Islam , Make the streets run red with the Blood of those who wish to wash Israel and Christianity from the face of the Earth.
Constantine III

Offline Graybeard

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Re: The official 'ones we don't talk about' thread...
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2008, 02:39:35 PM »
I'd agree that marking it as a signal cannon only with no projectile would be a good idea but also agree you can't fool proof anything.

Ya know I've always said "I'm not a cannon guy" but reading this thread reminds me that isn't exactly true. It brought back memories of long ago days when I actually did make a home made cannon of the cheapest kind. I used a lenth of water pipe, some fire crackers and marbles as projectiles. For the life of me I have forgotten the details of how we got both firecracker and marble down the bore of that makeshift cannon. I don't recall if we inserted it from the rear and had a touch hole of sorts or if we just lit it and hoped we were clear when it fired. I tend to think the latter really.

I most likely just used the marble to hold the fuse in place at the mouth and lit the fuse and hoped all went well. I was young and igorant and really was 10' tall and bullet proof anyway in those days so how the heck could it hurt ME?

It actually worked quite well as I recall and propelled those marbles at least 250-300 yards where they impacted with a sound we could hear on an old abandoned metal building used to make grain bins at a previous time. The building was huge so not that difficult a target to hit if we got the angle right. Dangerous and stupid sure it was but hey I was likely not even 12 years old at the time and boys of that age in that time were expected to do stupid and dangerous things from time to time. I sure lived up to that expectation.

So I guess maybe I am a cannon guy after all thinking back on it. In fact since that was a minimum of 50 years ago I might have been the first on this site to have been a cannon guy thinking back on those long gone days of my youth.

I guess that was my one to not talk about and now I have. I wonder what kinda warning that one should have had?


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: The official 'ones we don't talk about' thread...
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2008, 02:44:40 PM »
Since I don't own more than two or three pounds of black (or substitute) at any one time I haven't been motivated to do the research you have.  But I certainly need to.

Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: The official 'ones we don't talk about' thread...
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2008, 02:49:57 PM »
Bill -

I always thought you had to have something for cannons in your background!

250-300 yards with marbles is good range!

Not bad for pre-teenage !

Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline phalanx

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Re: The official 'ones we don't talk about' thread...
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2008, 03:02:01 PM »
Well as far as being ,young and ignorant ,me to ,Now i am old and ignorant.
Anyone who lights  a fuse on something filled with powder , is either crazy,or loves what they are doing.
Once it is in your blood you never seem to get it out ,and it always brings out the kid in you.
In this time i Command ,That you take the Secular to Jerusalem .
There you rid the Holy City of the Scourge of Islam , Make the streets run red with the Blood of those who wish to wash Israel and Christianity from the face of the Earth.
Constantine III

Offline jeeper1

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Re: The official 'ones we don't talk about' thread...
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2008, 03:25:31 PM »
Quote
Once it is in your blood you never seem to get it out ,and it always brings out the kid in you.
That is so true!
I may not be completely sane, but at least I don't think I have the power to influence the weather.