Difference in 1911 quality and price in the upper types?

[His lordship.]

Thinking of getting a nicer 1911, I know of the Kimbers, Paras, Dan Wesson, Smith and Wesson, and the Springfields, Sigs, as well as others.  The mentioned guns are around $800.00 to $1,100.00 or so, I have heard that they are accurate and decent. 

I had gotten the Wilson catalog this last summer and they have numerous steel 1911's going in the area of $2,500.00 or so, I think the Les Bauers are like that too.  What is the big difference between the Wilsons and the Kimbers for example as that is quite a spread in price?

Thanks.

[williamlayton]

More attention to detail, better parts (though this is an ongoing opinion), it takes the production gun to somewhat the level of a custom gun--though they choose what is done.
Take a good Colt--I did--and take it too a good smith, with a good reputation--I did--tell him what you want and what parts you want and he will do it for about the same money.
What you have is a better, more reliable weapon over the short and long haul.
There are a number of smiths with good reputations--so good and so much in demand--that your request may take years to get done--see Ned Christianson--but what you get is a shooter with heirloom quality (IMO).
Blessings
My opinion

[Mikey]

Chris D:  William Layton is on the money here and pretty accurately describes the differences between a standard production mil-spec 45 and a high dollar piece of custom work.  I think he just about covered all the bases. 

The 'fit and finish' of a custom piece is pretty alluring.  Some guys try and get to the same point by tricking out their pistols with aftermarket parts but it's tough to come up with a silk purse when you start with a sow's ear - not that the sow didn't shoot well or function properly, but the silk purse is that much nicer.

I have always felt that I should shoot my old mil-specs until they slicken up a bunch and then trick it out to be a smoothie but it might never really get there and some of those custom guns are soooo nice.  Mikey.

[Lloyd Smale]

heres my take on it. I think 15 years ago to get a real good 1911 you had to go the custom route. Whether it was a gun you sent in for custom work or a full blown custom gun bought complete. Like a wilson ect. Right now theres some real fine factory guns in the 1200 dollar range that will serve just about anyone well. there probably as good of guns as the customs were 15 years ago. Some that impress me are the top end kimbers like the gold match and cdp. the springfield trp and the sti trojan. All can be bought for close to a grand and your getting a hell of a gun for the money. Dont get me wrong ive probably got more custom high dollar handguns then anyone here but in my opinion the 1911 is a working gun and i just cant see putting money into fancy options on them. My 1911s get road hard and put away wet and i dont need a fancy 3000 dollar one getting banged around. What i need is a gun that runs 100 percent and gives exceptable accuracy. The top end factory guns will do that just fine anymore. There a far cry from the old gi guns we used to start with that need a gunsmith just to keep them running or to make them hit a barn door. Now if your absoultely in love with 1911s and want the best, theres nothing wrong with that. Like i said ive spent 3 grand on a single action too. Theres no doubt your getting a slightly better gun but the ammont of improvement your getting in the actually real world use of the gun sure isnt going to justify the extra 2 grand your spending.

[Questor]

I agree with Lloyd, and will add that if you need a competition gun or some other gun for a special purpose, then a custom gun is the only way to go. Otherwise you will end up replacing the gun with a custom gun eventually.

One of the things that's keeping companies like Wilson in business now is service. They can be relied on to deliver a truly reliable gun made of top quality parts. If I were in a position of needing a gun every day and wanted the best I could afford, I'd spend the extra grand on a Wilson or similar gun. I lean this way on the theory that the things you use a lot should be as fine as you can afford.

I had a Kimber gold match and wasn't that thrilled with its durabilty. But maybe they make them better now. I sold it.

[K.K]

I agree for the most part about the high-end custom guns. a few years ago, I bought a plain-Jane Colt and brought it to a gunsmith for replacement of the hammer, safety, levers, springs, trigger, trigger job, Trijicon sights, fitting, reblueing, action/feed job etc. What I put into it would have bought a new Les Baer or at least a Wilson.

That said, Kimber, Springfied, Para, and now companies like SIG and S&W are producing factory guns that shoot very well, over a wide variety of ammo, things that Mil-specs would never do until a few years ago.  If you can afford a custom piece, buy one! They are great and worth the money. However, I don't feel handicapped with today's high-quality factory guns either.

[bluesman]

I think the first thing you need to do is define the purpose for your 1911.  If it is for defense only then you do not need a target pistol.  If it is to be used for a plinker then you may not want to spend $2500 and up.

Most people would be very well served with a quality 1911, maybe even a parts gun as long as ALL parts are quality.  If this 1911 (along with all mags) is then sent to any QUALIFIED gunsmith familiar with 1911s and made reliable 100 percent of the time it will be entirely adequate for defense, plinking, etc.  Might not be much for showing off and impressing friends but it will work right ALL of the time.

Many of the whizbang gizmos currently popular are for the gee whiz factor or pride of ownership.  There is nothing wrong with pride of ownership but don't fool yourself into thinking you need a $2500 1911 for defense.  They are nice but not necessary.

[drdougrx]

One more to chime in.  In 1985, I had a colt GVT rebuilt by LaRocca Gunworks in Worcester, MA.  He was trained by Pachmeyer and is a hell of a smith (I still use him today).  I still have that hand checkered, two toned, ambi safetied, beveled mag welled, lowered ejection ported, tuned extractor, long trigger, ramped and throated, buried bomar sighted beauty in the back of my safe.  I couldn't afford that kinda work today (well ... I could if I saved up).  BUT...I also had a top-end kimber that I sold because I had the colt.  It did everything I wanted as well as the custom colt!

I then bought a plain jane, blued LW commander that I had LaRocca dehorn the grip safety, ramp and throat and install night sites.  This is the gun that I use all the time, because when it comes right down to it...the purpose for these guns is personal defense and for me, it really boils down to dependable feeding of desired street ammo every round, good sights that I can see and a descent, crisp, 5lb trigger.  IMO...anything else is window dressing.


So...go ahead and buy a top end kimber, springfield, smith, SIG, Rock River, etc, etc, make sure it shoots, make sure you can see the sights and don't worry too much about who builds it.  Save your money for the 10 or 15 holsters that you're gonna buy till you find the "ONE". 

[williamlayton]

It is a good topic with a lot of different angles to work from.
The reason for any personal work is, IMO, function and reliability. The fit and finish of the final work is not without pleasure, however.
If you wish confidence that the weapon WILL function then maybe a smith is for you.
IF it is a weapon that you will trust your life too in a rush be pretty dogone sure it will perform.
That can be done, as Mikey suggest, with lots of lead down range. Tweaking it as you go, if necessary. Also know your own limitations. Drop in parts are seldom drop in parts.
The fact is that, out of the factory, one may not know what kind of parts are in the gun and, there are folks who make very good aftermarket parts that, IMO, are more quality than the parts supplied with the guns.
Now that is not too imply that these parts in the factory gun WILL fail or that the new, bulletproof parts, won't fail.
It is just that with lots of shooting with the reworked gun or the factory gun a lot of confidence will be gained.
I admit That I do like the looks of the fit and finish of that old, reworked COLT.
Blessings   

A PS and not a shot at drdougrx--though I tend too disagree with him about the holster/scabbard thing, or, why spend a bunch of money on any scabbards.

[Lloyd Smale]

dont get me wrong and think im stating that evey top end factory gun is a great gun. Ive had kimbers and springfields (especially springfields) that were just no good too. but then ive seen les baers choke at the range too. Like some of the others posted you need to find out if your gun is good. I get a new 1911 i take it apart clean it and oil it properly and take it to the range with a 1000 round of ammo. To past my test it needs to run a 1000 rounds in a day without a cleaning or another oiling and if it fails i will try to look at why and give it a tweaking. If it fails the second time it goes on the used gun market. Ive gone through quite a few 1911s in my life and the ones i have right now are guns id trust my life too. You can bad mount one brand or the other but if you go to a 1911 fourm you will find that bad ones come out of every manufacture and that includes baer, wilson and ed brown. Nice thing is that those companys will usually make them right. Probably the most reliable 1911 ive ever owned is my kimber commander. Now its a commander which some people say isnt going to be as reliable as a fulls sized gun. its an alloy frame which some poeple balk at and its one of the dreaded external extractor kimbers that is wrote about more then about anything but the smith locks. that gun will run anything you put in it and will shoot about any load you can make into 2 inch or less at 25 yards. If i had to BUG out in a major disaster it would be the first gun that would be loaded in my truck. If i had a job that my life depended on a gun daily you wouldnt get it away from me with two wilsons to trade. Its sure nothing fancy and i think i piced it up for about 600 bucks but id put that gun up against any 2000 dollar gun for function. I know it has had over 50000 rounds through it and nothing is been done to it other then a set of nights sights installed and regular spring replacements. In my opinion a guy is much better off buying a gun lke that and spending his money or loading components and actually shooting the snot out of it then spending 2000 on a gun that your afraid to get a scratch on. Like i said in my previous post. To me a 1911 is a working gun not a show piece. it has one job and that is to go bang everytime and shoot accurately enough to hit what you need to hit everytime. Ive just got a hard time buying into the fact that a 4000 dollar 1911 is 4 times as good as a 1000 dollar 1911. I think my money is spent better in other ways.

[drdougrx]

WilliamLayton no offense taken.....holsters can be a passion and a poison.  I've seen soo much agony about which holster to use.  I've never really slipped a gun into my waistband....never found it all that comfortable.