What's the correct model designation for this small Spanish cannon?

[cannonmn]

http://www.napoleon-series.org/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl?read=85826

[Double D]

John,

Vuelo is flying in Spanish.  Volante is steering wheel. 

[cannonmn]

Thanks.  I wonder if it may have had different meaning ca. 1795?  Since there weren't really any "steering wheels" in the automotive sense, wonder what it would have applied to back then?

[jeeper1]

Volante is Italian for flying.
 I wonder if Spanish and Italian were more similar way back then.

[Double D]

Maybe the cannon is Italian?

[cannonmn]

Maybe the cannon is Italian?

No, the royal cypher on the breech is that of Carlos IV of Spain, and the other markings are all in line with Spanish cannons of the period.

I think the video, linked at the bottom of the first post, shows all the marks pretty well.

I've been asking questions about the naming of French and Spanish cannons, on various discussion boards.  I haven't yet heard from anyone who has found any documentation on how it was done, who got to select the name, whether they had some kind of christening ceremony, or whatever.

I've got a complete copy of a fairly recent book on the Royal Cannon Foundry of Seville (Spain) and it is all written in Castillian Spanish (meaning that our local Mexicans and Puerto Ricans can't make much sense out of it).  I think if any book had something on that topic, it would be that one.  Some day I'll get someone who speaks Castillian Spanish to skim over the whole thing and find that part, if it is in the book.

[Double D]

I think we may be getting some where

Volante

• http://www.freedict.com/onldict/onldict.php  handlebars, helm, rudder
• http://www.spanishdict.com/AS.cfm?e=volante  ruffle, shuttlecock
• http://ets.freetranslation.com/  flying
• http://www.wordreference.com/es/en/translation.asp?spen=volante
  I adjetivo flying
       
  II m
  1   (de automóvil) steering wheel
       coger el/ ponerse al/ir al volante, to take the wheel: José iba al volante, José was driving
  2   Cost ruffle, flounce, frill
  3   (para el médico) referral note
• http://www.v7w.com/cgi-bin/es?w=volante  n. shuttlecock, portable screen, steering wheel, flywheel, note, ruffle; adj. flying, unsettled
• http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr steering wheel

[cannonmn]

Thanks DD, it is probably one of those.  To better ID which of those or whatever, I started a discussion on one of the sites you linked, to see if they have any opinions

http://learnspanish.spanishdict.com/forum/topic/show?id=1710195%3ATopic%3A16954

[Double D]

It might help if you had the entire phrase and not just one word. 


 

[cannonmn]

Thanks DD.  Well, there isn't any whole phrase.  The name "Volante" stands alone atop the chase of the gun, so that's all we have to work with.

The adventure of posting on the "Spanish Learning" or whatever site produced an interesting and unexpected result, which I'm not completely sure is the answer, but it it something.  They referred me to this website regarding the history of Monterrey Mexico, and the Mexican-American War of the 1840's.  The passage in it they wanted me to look at actually refers to some American weapon I'm not familiar with (not the Walker Colt, but the one above it.

I did an online translation, which for once was actually quite readable:

 "All that armament is lost now. The tubes that we see in the Museum of the Bishopric, are not in their original position and are of another time. These were brought of Tampico, the last century and were in the corners of the Seat of the Civil School, until 40 years ago (the cricket) In spite of the strong protection of artillery whereupon it counted, the city had to be evacuated in that war, by the appearance of two new inventions into the hands of the North American army. On the one hand "the flying tube", that had its name to mobility. Small bronze piece of caliber 2", that was dismantled and been able to be loaded in shoulders of two soldiers. On the other hand, the appearance of the pistol revolver of 5 shots of caliber 0,44"(Colt 44) that decimated in a day, to oficialía of the Mexican cavalry (They fought with saber)."




http://www.rcadena.net/ciudad1.htm

[Double D]

One thing we are doing here is only considering the literal translation, the conceptional could have an entire different meaning.  Volante may mean something quite different than its literal meaning.  Taking that approach, I tried a thesaurus.

http://lookwayup.com/lwu.exe/lwu/toEng?h=dictpage&s=d&w=volante&sLang=Esl

Definition of    1. volante [n] (wheel) a simple machine consisting of a circular frame with spokes (or a solid disc) that can rotate on a shaft or axle (as in vehicles or other machines). More...
 
2. volante [n] (steering_wheel, wheel) a handwheel that is used for steering. More...
 
3. volante [n] (stick, control_stick, joystick) a lever used by a pilot to control the ailerons and elevators of an airplane. More...
 
4. volante [n] (helm) a position of leadership. More...
 
5. volante [n] (helm) steering mechanism for a vessel; a mechanical device by which a vessel is steered. More...
 
6. volante [n] (rudder) a hinged vertical airfoil mounted at the tail of an aircraft and used to make horizontal course changes. More...
 
7. volante [n] (frill, flounce, ruffle, furbelow) a strip of pleated material used as a decoration or a trim. More...
 
8. volante [n] (joystick) a manual control consisting of a vertical handle that can move freely in two directions; used as an input device to computers or to devices controlled by computers. More...
 
Now I think we are getting some where

The leader or director of the course.

[cannonmn]

Thanks DD, that's one that seems to make sense.  A lot of the Spanish cannons I've seen were named for words that describe desirable qualities that would normally  be attributed to a person (yeah I know, the part of speech, an "ad-something" but I never learned those names very well.)

[peter b]

Hi, greetings from across the pond.   'Artillery through the Ages' lists a spanish cannon as a 'pasavolante' of about 6 pounder but could be a lot smaller.  I regret I am unable to find the meaning of pasa - could it be 'small' or 'half'.     Regards, peter b

[Double D]

Relying on my very limited border spanglish skills, last extensively practiced 15 years ago and given the defintions we have already found...pasavolante is "it Leads the Way"

[cannonmn]

>very limited border spanglish skills

DD, your are just who I've been lookin' for, a Spanish scholar!  I've been digging all kinds of fascinating-looking documents out of archives and the Library of Congress, which were in the Archives of the Spanish local governments when the US took over Spanish Florida in 1821.  They are collectively called the "East Florida Papers" and you can find online indices to some of what's in them.  I used that and the LOC's "finding aid" to target the microfilm reels I wanted to look at first.  It was easy to find long lists of cannons present at various times in places like Castillo de San Marcos in St. Augustine.  Some of these inventories have been summarized in tabular form over the years and some of the summaries are in the "Artillery Through the Ages" book tha's online as we mentioned the other day.  There's something neat about seeing the original document, in the original handwriting, that's better than somebody's table of numbers.  I may post a few of the documents here, even if you can't read 'em completely, I think some of 'em are very cool looking, and I can recognize enough words to know they have interesting information.

[Double D]

My spanish is limited to asking questions to determine if you are smuggling an undeclared bottle of liquor or if you need a passport. 

I don't recall ever asking ¿qué tipo cañón tiene usted ? I have said "¡ponga sus manos en la pared y sepárese las piernas!"
 
 

[Cat Whisperer]

Peter B -

WELCOME to the board!

Which pond?  I.e.: where's home?  What do you like to shoot?