which is the better choice for curing a flinch ?

[kennisondan]

OK I admit that with a few painful elbow problems I detected a flinch today... pushing the gun forward slightl on some of the shots, not all of them.. but when I do not concentrate fully, there it is... I shot some light loads in 45 today and would leave a cylinder or two empty and then move it around and shoot the cylinder full.. I tried to to develop a flinch, but I did..
I am getting a 22 revolver, and will shoot it a lot.. I can dry fire my transfer barred guns and make snap caps... any thing else..? I hope others truly pay attention to see if they are not shooting as well as they could all of a sudden .. see if they are flinching or not.. it does not take much and does not have to happen all the time to work you over some... I plan to do the above but would appreciate any wisdom you guys have to show me... Il will be laying off the heavy guns till the elbow is fixed...
so the 22 and dry firing and light loads in 45 is the thing.
suggestions " ??
dk

[Mikey]

Dan - What sort of elbow problems???  Surgical type problems or just 'ouchies'??  Are you shooting from a bench?  Have you padded your elbows??

If I'm firing from a padded rest I usually pad the table top I am shooting from.  Big bore rifles and pistols wreak havoc on an unprotected elbow and will cause you to both flinch and wince...

If this is what you are experiencing then use an old hot seat or a cushion from a chair to give you a nice soft recoil absorbing pad beneath your elbow.  Also, some shooting jackets can irritate you badly if the elbow pads are not properly covered inside the sleeve. 

I spend a lot more time at the bench than I do shooting at game and my elbows and shoulders take a beating.  I have a PAST Recoil Shield for my shoulder and I use a hot seat to protect my elbow.  HTH.  Mikey.

[Lloyd Smale]

22s and dry fireing definately help but the best thing is using the gun your trying to master with very light loads.

[kennisondan]

I will do all that Lloyd..
Mikey : I have degenerative arthritis, a torn tendon that has gotten pretty bad that required surgery around oct. but waited for the season to be over...and a couple of calcium deposits in the elbow that is giving problems...and the arthritis is settling in to the shoulder and wrist, too... it seems there is a tendon problem on the inside of the forearm too..but that's unconfirmed presently.. I cannot carry my encore in my right hand for a 100 yard walk without it maxing out...my heaby barrleed rifle is a problem too ... I am gonna have the surgery when the rheumatologist tells me it is not a bad idea to have things cut on with the arthritic problems that are diagnosed and the ones suspected too... the kind that is not diagnosed is psoriatic arthritis itis a lot like RA adn responds to the same treatments...
I am gonna add a pellet gun to the regimen of flinch cure too... and dry firing the same weapons that I will hunt with.. I have the guns all set up the same way and am loading everything down low speed and lighter bullets so to avoid recoil problems.
dk

[palgeno]

Try something which does not hurt your elbow, arm, hand, or ears, etc. when you fire it. (That sounds like a 22lr to me.) Then practice "follow through." Important with the long lock time and hammer fall of revolvers and TC's. Do it a lot!!!!!!!!!!! Dry fire will help, but I think training with some sound helps more.
Use "ear protection" ALWAYS!! even when hunting. Gene

[safetysheriff]

isn't dry-firing of a .22 rimfire injurious to the firing pin/striker?     i think you can dry-fire a number of centerfires, though certainly not all of them.     Handi' rifles are NOT to be dry-fired with their relatively weak transfer bars.     

take care,

ss'   

[Sweetwater]

I have to side with Lloyd on this one. I have yet to develop a flinch, at least with my guns, but when I moved west to Wyoming in 1985, my sister had been there since 1975, and had a terrible flinch with both her handgun and her rifle. I started her in a program of very light loads in the very guns that she flinched with. In her Dan Wesson 357mag revolver, not only did I use light charges of Bullseye, but also the lightest bullets I could find. In no time, i.e. a couple weekends, she was shooting 38spl +P loads and after a month or so, she could put a cylinder of real 357's where they needed to go. Still, I kept her in very light target loads for her 'everyday' shooting. That flinch has not returned. In her 30-06 Remington 700, I took her 180's away and gave her 110gr hollowpoints over 40gr of IMR4320. A month later, I worked her into 130gr hollowpoints over 46gr of IMR4064. Another month and she was shooting the same bullets over 53gr of IMR4064. Eight months later, she shot a mule deer with a 150gr Nosler over 48gr of IMR4350, followed by an Elk with a 170gr Herters over 52gr of IMR4350.
The drift of all of this was using the same weapons and turning the expectation of pain back into an expectation of fun by using very light loads behind very light bullets.
As a sidebar, her 'heavy handloads' that created the flinching were created by a hunting companion who actually thought the 'pain' would keep her home. It just created the flinch and a dislike for shooting, though she loved the hunting and would not stay home. I was happy to be able to help her and then watch the results in the field - the surprise and excitement of actually keeping her eyes open as she squeezed the trigger and noting the animal taken in a very sporting fashion. She really is a better shot than she thought she was, and better than a lot of guys I've hunted with. No Flinch. The program works.
I shoot a LOT of light loads in my hunting rifles. My heavy loads go without notice. Or Flinch.

Regards,
Sweetwater

[Sweetwater]

SafetySheriff-
I believe you are correct about the dryfiring of certain weapons. I have been severely admonished for dryfiring - without snapcaps - my Mom's favorite single shot shotgun, and my Gramp's 94Winchester. Granted, this was over 50years ago, but I never forgot it. I watched the gunsmith change the broken firing pins and paid for them out of my paper route money. These were both of the 'free-floating' type of firing pin, typical of these actions. My Dad's old double action Colt never seemed to mind, being a fixed firing pin. Guess I'd be very edgy about dryfiring anything without proper snapcaps in place.

Regards,
Sweetwater

[kennisondan]

Is it ok to dry fire a ruger based clements conversion ? I need to dry fire something for the extra practice and muscle memory and will need to exercise the elbow after a surgery to boot. I am loading up some just under ten g. unique 45 collt loads for that gun.  May go a little lighter but they are so mild with 255 CAST.
dk

[jhalcott]

  Kenni, i am not sure if this can help with YOUR problem, but if you have some one else load the gun with some chambers live and some empty cases. Then when you fire the gun you WILL see the flinch. A week end of doing this will lessen the flinch considerably. It seems your flinch is caused more by a physical condition though!  Light loads are indeed a help. A video camera showing the results is a helpfull tool also.

[kennisondan]

thanks rite now I am hurting all the time so I am not sure if I am going to shoot a lot of hot loads anyway... made up 80 or so 265gr with 9.8Unique under them to try out for a lighter load in the five shot 45colt... the gun is pleasant to shoot.. if it kicks too much for the recovery period I will save them and put out 100 with 7.8gr. Unique same bullet... I know that will be light... if that does not work I will buy some trail boss and go down to 600fps or so... I broke out the airgun and the 22 is coming soon... at least I think it is..
dk

[corbanzo]

If you are really worried about it, buy snap caps.  Or a new firing pin and spring is usually about $5. 

One thing to look out for though, I have a henry golden boy in .17hmr, and when I bought it, I didn't look it over enough.  After having some ejection problems, I noticed that just on the inside edge of the chamber, it had been dry fired enough to leave a little indent in the steel at that edge to cause the ejection problems.  So that had to be sanded off, and the pin replaced. 

Thank you very much to henry for doing that free of charge and also taking care of the shipping!

[Lloyd Smale]

I dry fire all my rugers and have never had a problem doing it. the only guns i own that im skeptical about dry firing a ton are the ones with hammer mounted firing pins. I do dry fire them too but not for practice.

[charles p]

Try shooting a few rounds with your off hand.  Bet you won't flinch at all.  Then alternate a little to regain the flinch-free habit.  It works for me when shooting a rifle.  Might work with a handgun.

[Questor]

I've found the following method to work very well. I do flinch occasionally in practice, but it only happens when I have a mental lapse when shooting a gun I haven't shot for a while.

1) Dry fire practice where you focus on the sight and imagine a perfect shot execution.
2) Imagining that you see the gun recoil as it is firing (i.e., following through the shot).
3) Putting in the range time with the gun to get comfortable with it and how it shoots.

That's all there is to it. It works for me.

[Tom W.]

Dan, tendon problems will be aggravated by the  way a Single Action revolver recoils. That torque  almost did me in, and caused me to sell one of my Super Blackhawks and get a Super Redhawk. My .45 Blackhawk doesn't get fired as much as it used to, and I think I'm going to download the thing from now on so I can shoot it without pain. I have noticed that the recoil from the SRH is more "up and straight back" than twisting. Even my Encore pistol is more up and straight back, which doesn't hurt nearly as much.

[kennisondan]

Thanks to all ; Tom : I also now have found some nerve conduction problems in the right arm and torn tendons and torn muscle and an impingement in the right shoulder with a bone spur there and bursitis to boot.... ! making plans to address that... was your single actions standard gripped or bisley,, the biz seems to press more straight back to me at least but it does not mean that is correct. I am just wondering...

The docs are saying tendinosis like a disease of the tendons... I am anxious to find out more...were you having pain and tendonitis, tears etc. too ? was there a systemic problem going on ? that is what I am checking out at present.
dk

[kennisondan]

as to the flinch : took out the single six for the first time and shot many hundreds of rounds without any real pain or recoil and the flinch was almost nonexistant.. have plenty more to shoot.. it seems that will help some..
I like the mental imaging approach in addition to all else suggested.. I will use that too.
I will advise of my progress on it...
thanks and good shooting..
dk

[Tom W.]

Kinda looks like you're a candidate for shoulder replacement..... My wife is having hers done the 3rd of March....

My revolver was a standard grip...with a nice set of Pachmeyers on it

I know that one of these days I have to get the tendinitis fixed, but it will be a while...