Author Topic: bullets being pushed into the cartridge (.444 Winnie 94)  (Read 566 times)

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Offline deerhunter1981

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bullets being pushed into the cartridge (.444 Winnie 94)
« on: January 24, 2008, 03:30:00 AM »
Bought a brand new Winchester 94 Big Bore in .444 not too long ago. The first time I loaded it, I noticed that the bullets got pushed (about 3-5 mm) into the cartridge. Although being aware that it might increase the pressure and extend the amount of free-flight before reaching the rifles, I shot about 12 rounds with it. Nothing to complain about the accuracy; on a apprx 70 meters range, three shot series produced 1.5" groups with standard iron-sights. However, thinking about it, is there a possibility that firing those round could damage the gun in any way? For example the potential high pressure? Does anyone have any knowledge/experiences with this? The ammo was the standard 240grain Remington express ones.

And about the bullets being pushed in; the loading port seemed a bit tight, so that could be the reason(?) Or is the Remington ammo prone to this? I oiled the loading port a bit, and that seemed to help, but it still seems a bit tight. The magazine spring seems ok... Does this seem familiar to anyone? Hope I can just "break it in".

Any thoughts or ideas are appreciated!

Offline Castaway

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Re: bullets being pushed into the cartridge (.444 Winnie 94)
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2008, 04:03:53 AM »
Contact Remington.  Seems their crimp leaves something to be desired.

Offline Mikey

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Re: bullets being pushed into the cartridge (.444 Winnie 94)
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2008, 01:00:59 AM »
deerhunter 1981:  I have three of those rifles and no matter what, Remington ammo will do that.  However, my hand loaded bullets do not seat back into the case.  Do not know what it is about the Remington's, unless it's just crummy stuff with a lousy crimp.  Even when I re-crimp using a factory crimp die they still set back into the case.

My Winchesters all have smooth actions; actually, pretty slick.  There aren't any hangups at all and each action is positive and tight.  I can chuck some of my reloads through those actions half a dozen times and the overall length remains the same.  I think it is just the ammo.

Regarding the loading port - unless you are a gunsmith who knows how to work on Winchester Big Bore Levers, leave it alone and have a gunsmith look it over.  You could very easily have a rough loading port - some of the factory finishing work toward the end wasn't the greatest and they could easily have blued over burrs and other flaws that could effect how smoothly the action functions.  The last one I bought, a Black Shadow in 444 was such a horrendous pos that it went back to the factory twice before I even got it to the range.  Now however, it is one of my favorites.   

As for shooting the ammo with bullets being set back into the case - your rifle is fine.  Winchester lever actions are quite strong and I doubt you hurt anything.  But to be sure, you can send me the rifle and all your ammo and I will keep it for years and shoot the snot outta it and hunt with it and let you know how it has held up.  If you are concerned the rifle may not be reliable you can always sell it to me.....................Just a thought.  Mikey.

Offline deerhunter1981

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Re: bullets being pushed into the cartridge (.444 Winnie 94)
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2008, 02:06:02 AM »
hey Mikey

thanks for the reply,
I'm really stoked on this rifle, and can't wait for the hunting season. because lever actions aren't all that popular over here (norway), I got it real cheap too. the guy have had it for years and just wanted to get rid of it. I'm having it scoped as we speak, and think I'll take it to the range tomorrow. So no, I won't sell it, hehe :-) spoke to the gun shop and they said they'll give me some different ammo, so I'll soon get the answer to whether the remington ammo is as crap as you say it is. I've heard the same thing from others, anyway thanks for the reply

Offline Mikey

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Re: bullets being pushed into the cartridge (.444 Winnie 94)
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2008, 05:36:16 AM »
deerhunter 1981:  the 444 is one of my most favorite cartridges.  I found that both my Traditional Rifle and the Black Shadow came with Marlin's Microgroove barrels.  The Traditional Rifle was sent for re-barrel and is an incredible tack driver with heavy (300, 330 and 335 gn ) Beartooth Bullet slugs and load data. 

If you do not reload please consider taking it up.  The 444 will perform incredibly well with heavy cast slugs, and the use of heavy slugs in that caliber makes the 444 a big game hunter's dream.  If you do not reload, the 444 is still an excellent round and can be had in 240, 265, possibly 270 and 300 gn loadings from some of the custom ammo makers.

Please be aware though that if yours wears a Microgroove barrel and has not been shot much you may wish to consider the bore lapping process advocated by Beartooth Bullets.  It is the same process spoken to by Veral Smith, one of the Graybeard Moderators and a well known bullet mould maker.  In fact, I believe the Beartooth literature refers to Veral Smith numerous times.  Microgroove barrels shoot fine with jacketed bullets but need 'enhancement' to perform the same or better with cast slugs.

I found that once my barrels were slugged to determine actual bore diameter and then lapped (as per instructions) they shot better than many bolt rifles I have owned.  My long tube Montana Rifleman re-barrel prints under 1" at 100 yds with all the slugs mentioned above.  The former Black Shadow is just as good. 

I don't really feel the Remington ammo is not good, I just don't like the fact that some of it seats more deeply after only one or two chamberings.  Both your rifle and mine may yet require a bit more work to enhance smoother chambering but to be honest, what we have is a fat, straight walled cartridge with a flatter nose than the bottlenecked rounds, and bumping the nose against the barrel mouth when chambering and causing some minor bullet set-back but this doesn't seem to hurt anything.  HTH.  Mikey.

Offline deerhunter1981

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Re: bullets being pushed into the cartridge (.444 Winnie 94)
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2008, 05:54:28 AM »
mikey: sweet, I'll follow up on that for sure. gonna see how she goes with jacketed bullets tomorrow if I have the time. I don't reload per date, but when I bought this rifle, I knew that buying a re-loading set kinda came with the deal. So I'll get one in not too long