How high with Unique in a 44 Handi

[Jeffery8mm]

I have a 44 Handi rifle that I want to load jacketed bullets in. I have Unique powder as of now. At 11 grs of unique and a 240gr rem sp I get 1300fps, average. If I want 1600fps, can I safely work up the load to say 14 grs?? No pressure signs at all at 11gr.
Just wondering where the MAX is with unique. Most manuals dont even list unique as a rifle powder.
Thanks
Jeff

[huntswithdogs]

What DO the manuals say? A lot of manuals will have different sections when giving loads for a 44 mag(Revolver,single shot,and rifle). Some even break it down as to the brands of rifles. If it ain't listed, I'd stop and find a load that does what you want before just adding powder. Pistol powders will reach or surpass dangerous pressures EXTREMELY quick. It could be a health hazard!

HWD

[Graybeard]

Did the bullet exit the barrel? Did you hear a loud noise sorta like a BANG when you pulled the trigger?

If so those are two EXCELLENT and dependable signs of pressure.

Now if you're looking for signs of EXCESSIVE pressure you'll get it when the gun blows up in your face possibly taking one or both of your eyes with it or maybe some fingers. That is an outstanding sign of excessive pressure but do you REALLY want to see such excessive pressure signs?

Follow the book recommendations and when you get to where your loading manual says is MAX then assume it really means it and that no you can't just keep on going until the gun explodes in your face to prove to you that pressures really were too high.

[Jeffery8mm]

right on guys!
probably gonna pick up some 2400 or IMR2447 for the mag loads
Jeff

[stimpylu32]

Jeff

If you want to run that fast go with H4227 or H110 but DO NOT try to push Unique any more .

stimpy

[warrior1]

+1 to h110  or 296. but stay within manuals guidelines. i believe lyman's manual publishes both handgun and rifle loads for the 44 mag.

[LaOtto222]

I use Unique in my 44 Mag for cast bullets. When I shoot a low pressure round that is when I use Unique. I have experimented around with the higher levels of pressure and have not gotten accuracy results I like. So now I use 7.6 grains of Unique (some where around 900 - 1000 fps depending on firearm used) for my low velocity rounds and I use H110 or WW296 for my top jacketed bullet rounds. BTW I have a 44 Virgina Dragoon, a 1894 Marlin, a 44 Mag Handi (2007 model), and a 44 Mag T/C Contender (2 barrels). Yes I do like the 44 Mag.

[Questor]

Jeffry8mm:

Just use load data for handguns. There's nothing special about the rifle data.

[hoggunner]

if the velocity changes with different length barrels then what would cause this if the pressure did not change? i would be very careful using pistol data in a long gun. if they were the same why then would some manuals state different loads for pistols and long guns. I have a rule and that is if its not printed in a manual I don't load it.
I like to be able to count to ten and see game in the woods when hunting, if my gun blows up these could be hard feats to do.
Sportingly
Hoggunner

[LaOtto222]

In general, but not always; a rifle will take more pressure than a pistol/revolver. So if it is safe in a handgun, it should be safe in a rifle. In the case of the 44mag there should be no difference in the maximum pressure between a handgun and a rifle. There is a max pressure standard for all 44 mag guns. A barrel that is 6" long and a barrel that is 20" long can see the same pressure, but get different velocities. Also different powders will work differently in longer barrels. A "slow" powder will have more velocity gain in a longer barrel, but not always. When power is ignited and starts to expand, is where most of the pressure builds. Once the bullet starts traveling a little distance down a barrel, the pressure drops. The longer barrel will let the expanding gases work on it for a longer period of time; thus getting more velocity. Slow powder will not burn as fast and gets a boost when traveling down a longer tube; in general. What does that all mean? just for an example; a given fast powder load in a handgun will give you 1000fps. The same load in a rifle will get you 1200fps. Now looking at a slower powder; say you get 1100 fps in a handgun and 1500 fps out of a rifle. You gain 200 fps with a fast powder and 400 fps with a slower powder. I think that some manuals give different loads for handguns and rifles so that the reloader will get a better idea how much velocity gain they will get out of the longer tube. In the case of the 45 Long Colt there is data difference between different loadings. There is the traditional pressure loads for older guns and a higher pressure loading for strong modern guns. This higher pressure load will out do a 44 mag, but the old traditional loading will poke along in comparison to a 44 mag. I am not advocating the higher pressure loads even though they are listed in some reloading manuals. I think you shoot them at your own risk. Even though a rifle will stand more pressure in 44 mag...Never - Never exceed manual recommended loads. You are asking for trouble. If you are not getting the velocity out of it you desire, then get a different gun with a higher velocity round, do not exceed max recommended pressures.

[Jeffery8mm]

LaOtto222 , Great post!!  I know better than to exceed the published data, just had to ask.  Kind of a stupid moment thing!!!!  I am going to try one of the mag powders, probably 4227
Thanks for keeping things safe fellows!!
Jeff

[Lone Star]

if the velocity changes with different length barrels then what would cause this if the pressure did not change? i would be very careful using pistol data in a long gun....

The reason for higher velocities in a rifle than in a handgun usually has little to do with the pressure - the longer barrel allows the pressurized gas more time to push on the bullet base, that is why the velocity is higher.  Cartridges reach their maximum pressure once the bullet has traveled just a few inches or less.  In the mid-1970s Speer was the first to publish pezio pressure data for revolvers.  Speer discovered that the pressure in a revolver was higher than the pressure in a solid barrel with the same loads.  Why?  Because when the bullet had to "slug up" entering the forcing cone it sealed off the gap and pressures went up.  The difference was on the order of 2000-5000 psi IIRC.  So data that is safe in a revolver is probably even safer in a rifle.  The key word here is "probably".

Why not use just 'any' revolver load in a rifle?  Because some revolver loads with fast powders will give the same or even lower velocities in the rifle since the fast powder's gas is used up too soon and the bullet has a chance to slow down.  But I guess that as long as the bullet exits the barrel it is safe.....


.

[coyotejoe]

My well worn Lyman #47 book lists three sets of data for the .44 mag, rifle, revolver, and T/C singleshot pistol.  In rifle data Unique is listed only with cast bullets but in revolver data they list a max load of 12.1 gr. Unique with a 240 JHP at 1101 fps from a 4" vented pressure barrel. In the T/C data they go to 12.5 grains at 1354 fps from a 10" barrel. With cast bullets in the rifle they list a max of 12.0 grains with 245 and 250 grain bullets at 1495 and 1485 respectively. So 12.0 grains should be a safe maximum with the 240 JHP in a rifle and that should go over 1400 fps, perhaps near 1500, but you can not safely reach 1600 fps with Unique. Unique has always been my "go-to" powder for cast bullets and even for reduced velocities with jacketed bullets from rifles or handguns and in many cases the Unique load is not really much reduced compared to other powders. In the revolver data mentioned Unique goes only 1101 fps but remember that is from a 4" vented pressure barrel. From the same barrel a max load of 23.9 grains of  H-110 goes only 1191 fps. So if you don't absolutely need that extra 90 fps you can use Unique, and thus burn half as much powder with noticeably less recoil and muzzle blast. I have 15 different powders at last count and some of them I haven't touched in years but I seem to grab the Unique nearly every time I begin to load. It is well named, a uniquely useful powder.