.375-.350 Remington Magnum

[lgm270]

Anybody have any information or experience with the .375/350 Remington Magnum wildcat.  (.350 Remington Magnum necked up to .375").  I'm interested in what the ballistics come out to be. 

I'm also interested in hearing if anyone's had experience with the 9.3/350 Remington Magnum, aka 9.3 Sisk Barsness.  (.350 Remington Magnum necked up to 9.3 mm  (i.e. .366")).

[Catfish]

Good luck, I couldn`t find ether of them in my books.

[kootenay6mm]

if you want some info on the 9.3-350, handloader magazine did an arcticle a while back, john barsness & charlie sisk built up a rifle called the 9.3 BS. looks like a great heavy game round. saw a reamer for sale the other day as well. i had a 375-350 for while as well none of the loads got chrono'd but it shot 270 gr hornadys real well. case capacity is about the same as the 375whelan imp. my 375 imp. gets 2370 fps with 270 hornadys. i'm using it for my walking around in bear country rifle.

kootenay

[Judson]

   I have done the .375/350 and ina standard length action like a 98 Mauser where the mag length is long enough so you can seat the bullets out far enough so as not to loose case capisity it is about equal to the .375H&H.   This is from a 20" barrel which makes for a short fast handling rifle.

[deltecs]

I have not used or owned a .375/350, but to say it will about duplicate the .375 H&H in longer actions is not correct.  The case capacity of the .350 Rem Mag is 73.74 gr.  Even opened up to .375 bore, the case capacity is still less than 75 gr.  The case capacity of the .375 H&H is 96.37 gr.  That is a 20 gr difference in powder column.  If both are used in modern actions at similar pressures, there is no way the .375/3.50 will duplicate the ballistics of the .357 H&H.  The .366/350 case capacity is almost identical to the 9.3x62 Mauser and I would expect ballitics to be near identical, loaded to similar pressures in modern bolt actions.  The 9.3x62 Mauser in a 98 action would weigh the same, with the same ballistics, and recoil as a .366/350, or so close as to be indistinguishable on game.

[critter killr]

I have one built on a Ruger short action. It will shove a 270 gr. bullet to 2500 fps from a 22" barrel. I've used it for black bear here in SE Alaska, it flattens them quick ! I haven't used it much after I had a 416-350 built though. With the 416-350 you can shove a 350 gr. to 2500 fps for the same barrel length.  It does a far better job on both black and brown bears. No need to track them after the shot  My friend has a 375-300 win short mag. He shoves a 270 gr. bullet out at 2650 fps, which is closer to the 375 h&h. In our experience the 375-350 & 375 short mag kills better than the 375 h&h. Over the years we have taken quite a few bears with them . Some day I would like to have a 416-300 short mag built, but as the years go by I find myself using handguns more. But I still carry a rifle for long shots. 

Critter killr

[Smokin Joe]

 

[Judson]

   True the .350 mag case has less case capisity then the good old .375 however there is a little to be said for short and fat cases being more efficient  then long cordite based cases like the .375.    Also the .350 mag is loaded to higher pressures then the .375 H&H all this translates into velosity.    This short fat case efficiency concept is what is behind he short mag craze and though a lot of it is over rated some of the theorys are true.

[Smokin Joe]

The SAAMI specs for the .350 mag are 56,200 CUP, the .375 is 62,000 PSI; not a lot of wiggle room there...................unless you're using a magic chronograph.

[Lone Star]

It will shove a 270 gr. bullet to 2500 fps from a 22" barrel.  In our experience the 375-350 & 375 short mag kills better than the 375 h&h....

Sorry, how is it possible that a cartridge firing the same bullet 200 fps slower than the .375 H&H somehow kills "better"?  Maybe the brownies and moose are easier to kill today than they were a few years ago when I left the Great Land (after 27 years).           


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[Judson]

   P.S.I. and C.U.P. do not relate to each other there is no conversion factor last I knew.    They explain this problem rather well in Cartridges of the World and the Book Cartridge Conversions.

[Smokin Joe]

P.S.I. and C.U.P. do not relate to each other there is no conversion factor last I knew.

I'm fully aware of that. That's why I listed both units. My point is that there isn't much pressure difference even if you did convert the units.

Just for info, the international CIP level for both cartridges is the same at 62000

[critter killr]

No magic chronograph, just a ohler 35 p and a pact. I like how people with no experiance in certain areas are the first ones to call bs. I've killed black bears with the 375 h&H and 375-350,and the 375-350 just works better in my experiance. We are allowed two black bears a year in our unit. So you can gain alot of experiance with a family of hunters. My kids use a 7mm-08 loaded with 120 gr. nosler ballistic tips, which work extremely well also. So how much experiance do you have killing black bears with either cartridges ? If you look in loading manuals you can shove a 250 to 2500 in a 350 rem mag, so its capable of 2500 with a 270 .375 cal. As for the pressure I don't how much there is. Case life is good ,no pressure signs and easy extraction. Just my experiance with it.

[Smokin Joe]

First, you know nothing about any experience that I may or may not have. I have a problem with the statement

With the 416-350 you can shove a 350 gr. to 2500 fps for the same barrel length.

And also with the general suggestion that the short mag case is the equal of the H&H.
It isn't.

[Judson]

   If one looks at the two cartridges they are close in performance.    The .375/350 does lend it self to a shorter rifle which does have merrit.    Just for the point of intrest the reason for the belt on the .375H&H is that the cartridge was origionally a cordite cartridge and the long strands of cordite were loaded into the case and then the case was necked.    This caused the shoulder to not be reliable for headspacing ad hence the belt.    That is also why both the .300 and .375 H&H have such long cases.    Where the cordite was in long (several inches) strands it would be hard to load it into a shorter fater case with a larger shoulser like for example the 300 Winchester Mag.    Just thought you might find this of intrest.

[Lone Star]

I think that most of us know the history of the ubiquitous H&H belt.  Of course, the .375 was not the first case to use a belt, but you knew that.  The full-length cases are not long because they used cordite (the .303 was loaded with cordite too, and is much shorter).  No, they were long because they needed that much case capacity to get the velocity the designers wanted to achieve.

But then 100-year old cordite loads have nothing to do with the performance of the cartridges in modern loadings.  Here, case capacity equals performance, and the full length H&H wins every time.  Sure, you can load the smaller case to higher pressures to get higher velocities, but you can do the same with the full-length case too.  The .375/350 has slightly more capacity than the .375-06 cartridge, but the H&H has a lot more - it can be loaded to higher velocities at the same pressures.

But the bottom line is that the short case offers all the performance most shooters need.  This was a semi-popular rebarrelling job in Alaska in the 1970s for the M600 Remington carbines.   For most uses, 2500 fps with a 270-grain bullet is plenty.  But 2700 fps works a little better.... 



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[Judson]

   Lets test you, if length has nothing to do with cordite just capisity then why not go to short fat cases and what about the .450 # 2 NE and the .475 #2 N.E..  These cases are 3.5" long and offer the same performance as the .458 Winchester which has far less capisity.
    Yes the .303 is shorter however for it's velosity/bullet weight the case is very long, again you can not stuff long strands of cordite in a short fat case.     I am not trying to be a pain in the ass but wildcats and cartridge design is some thing I really enjoy talking about and is a big part of my business.    Debate is good!!! it makes people think and learn!

[Lone Star]

The NE (and H&H) cartridges were developed for use in the tropics, and Cordite is a very temperature sensitive propellant.  Hence these cartridges were loaded to far lower chamber pressures than were later cartridges (.458, etc.) using modern powders.  To get the cartridge performance desired, the NE designers had to use cases with large capacity to generate the same muzzle energy, instead of using smaller cases loaded to high chamber pressures - this is the application of simple physics and cannot be argued.   

Actually, they DID go to larger diameter cases with Cordite - the .505 Gibbs, .416 Rigby, etc. all have significantly larger case diameters than the H&H designs and cordite fits in them just fine.  They were also very long, this to be able to generate the muzzle energies required....but they did require larger and more expensive actions.  The H&H cartridges were designed to fit in "affordable" rifles so were of smaller diameters.

The .303 fired a bullet of smaller diameter at similar velocities to the 8x57J cartridge, yet it's case is slightly shorter than the German cartridge (2.22" vs 2.24").  The .303 fired a larger diameter bullet at similar velocities to the .30-40 Krag, yet it's case is also shorter.  To say that "for it's velosity/bullet weight the case is very long" is to deny the existance of other contemporary late-19th century cartridges designed for the same purpose - which were longer than the .303.


My test score - 100%.


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[Judson]

   You are a lot of fun but I would give you only a 98% as you missed a few points though I bet you know them!   Part of the reason for the .450#2NE and .475#2 is legalaty but also during the switch from black to nitro powders they found that just switching powders led to extraction problems with the double rifles even though origionally the velosities were kept close to the same.    Holland and Holland solved this problem by using heavier cases and Jefferies solved it by going to large cases and very low pressures such as 25,000 C.U.P. in the #2 cartridges.    Due to restless natives in India and (chamber pressures)    45 caliber ammunition was outlawed by the Brits and hence the .475 #2 N.E. and the dropping of all of the .450 diameter cartridges.
     When I talked about "fatter cases I was refering to the case diameter compaired to the neck diameter.     As to the .303 its tapper and length is for cordite, I may be wrong here but I think the Germans used a flake powder not cordite.    All in all you know your stuff and would be great to talk to some time!