Question about re-barrelling a Winchester 94 to another caliber.

[JS44]

Hi,
I have a very late pre-64 mod. 94 in .32 Win that I want to change to 30-30. The existing barrel has seen it's better days (the whole rifle has) and does not group very well. Otherwise I'd keep it in it's original chambering.
Does it require changing any parts other than the barrel?
Since the 94 was made for so many years how much interchangeability is there in barrels made in different periods? For example, could I use a post 64 barrel as long as it is a top ejecting one?
How about one from a much earlier year?
I assume this is work that is typically done by a gunsmith which is fine because we have a few around here.

Thanks,
JS

[Rangr44]

Any pre-64 .32 is worth much more than later guns, or an altered pre-64.

If you don't want to address the accuracy issue directly, by working on the crown, rifling & other barrel & finish issues, then you'll be very far ahead by selling it as is, and buying what you want.

Once you change it, all you've done is erase one more pre-64 from the world.

[Kurt L]

I agree 200% with Ranger44
As you may know the 94 line is done gone
these are now collector items in sort terms.
don't destroy it if you don't care about the pre 94
then sell it so some one that can give it a good home and buy a 30-30.

[Sweetwater]

Interesting situation here. I inherited a 1927 model 1894 in 32WSPL. My grandfather bought the year my Dad was born, starting that "tradition". I have several firearms bought when each of my kids were born. Back to the 32..it was used in a lumber camp during the '30's to feed the men, and later became my Grampie's deer rifle. In the early '50's, he put it in the rack and purchased a Remington 722 in 257Roberts, which I also have. It was built in 1949, same as me. I began using the Old Winchester in the early '60's as an 'extra' rifle; rainy days and such. It's not had an easy life, and I used it a few years in Wyoming to take my last elk, antelope and deer. No, it s not an elk rifle, but it got the job done. My point being, it's been shot way more than anything else I've seen, short of competition guns, and it will still put game in the freezer. Sure it's worn, but....not beyond my capabilities with it. Like the other guys said, fix it or sell it, but don't alter it.
Regards,
Sweetwater

[Oldtimer]

I have to agree on the rehabilitation route.  I would add having a gunsmith clean the bore electronically.  Also, you do not tell what sort of groups you are getting.  I have seen some accurate lever-actions, but it is not a target rifle, and a lever-action takes a particular technique if shooting off the bench.  Even a rifle shooting a six inch group at 100 yards is capable of taking deer quite successfully.  I remember sighting in a Savage 340 in .30-30 for my neighbor and being distressed that I could get no better than five inch groups out of it, but he was thrilled to death.  It was good enough for the hunting he would do with it.  Other than a mild cleaning of surface dirt, I would leave the finish alone.  To me, each mark on the rifle tells a story of your father and grandfather spending days in the woods and fields.  That beats a "pretty" finish any day.

[Sweetwater]

Amen to the stories, Old Timer! I wouldn't swap my "rack of memories" for all the newbies yet to be produced! I know my old 32WSPL won't hold any better than 6 inches at 100yds; I doubt I can see any better than that anymore, but the meat in the freezer didn't know the difference. And those stories...I can still hear my Grampie telling them around the supper table after dessert. It was the icing on the cake when he visited back in the '50's. He's been gone for 34 years now, but his guns are still talking.
Regards,
Sweetwater

[JS44]

Thanks for the replies and advice.
Truth is that this gun is NOT an heirloom. If it was I’d leave it alone. I picked it up last winter at a local gun shop. They’d just taken in a load of odds and ends of everything and that 94 was in it. I didn’t pay much for it.  When I got home I looked up the serial number and it had been build in early 1964 before the change over to post ’64 production so it’s a very late pre-64.
The stock apparently had been messed with by someone before. They had done a very poor job of applying multiple coats of polyurethane to it. Several runs, blobs, and a very un-even finish. It looked too crappy to just leave that way so I stripped that crap off and refinished it and it looks much better now and more original. The left side of the receiver has some pitting here and there and so does the magazine tube, lever handle, and the barrel band. I didn’t do anything to the metal but clean it and get whatever rust there was off. No re-bluing. I took it all apart and replaced some screws that had damaged heads with new ones from Numrich Gun Parts. Some of the screws were rusted in place and it took a lot of liquid wrench and tapping to get them loose. I scrubbed the whole thing down inside and out after I got it apart and lubed everything with a light coat of oil or grease before re-assembling it. The bore doesn't really look bad. However, I did some research and my findings were that .32 WCF accuracy will fall off due to bore/rifling wear much quicker than a .30-30 barrel will.
When I took it shooting I shot from the bench. To be honest I don’t remember the group size at 100 yds but I do remember thinking that the accuracy wasn’t going to cut it.
I don’t expect even close to the same accuracy from a .32 Win. Lever gun that I get out of my Remington 700’s. Different animal all together.
I think what I’ll do is to go back to the range and shoot it some more. That first time I certainly had other guns to shoot that day and limited time to spend on any one of them. If I spend more time with it and got settled in better I might get better results. I hope so, anyway.

Thanks again,
JS

[Sweetwater]

You are right. The M94 will not shoot with a lot of rifles, but accuracy is relative. I used to be an accuracy nut. Now, as long as the meat gets in the freezer responsibly, I don't much care about the group size. I don't shoot a group at game, Just one.

Regards,
Sweetwater

[spinafish]

you might want to "slug" the barrel to find out what the actual diameter is..if its oversized or too worn you could always use lead bullets sized to the correct diameter.  It might make a world of difference in the accuracy.  Another thought is that he barrel might be lined by a gunsmith.  He might be able to take it to .308 from .32 in that manner.

[LeverBar]

What ammunition are you using?
Jacketed? What diameter of Lead?  Gas-checked?

If you are shooting plain-based lead, you might get your groups by switching to jacketed.  If the jackets work, great.
If you want to shoot lead but plain-based aren't accurate, have you tried gas-checked bullets?

For my .32-40, which shoots the same bullet as the .32 Special, I use a bit of filler in the case between the powder charge and the bullet--Original Shot Buffer.  This rifle would not shoot lead accurately, but with the buffer in it, open sights at 100 yards, lemon-sized objects are in trouble. Before you alter the rifle, this might be the solution to your accuracy problems.  The buffer does not dirty, nor does it harm your rifle.

If you would like to try shooting reloads that I would build for you, I'd send you some--no charge.  I reload for the .32 Special anyway, so it would be easy, a pleasure, to help out.

I can send jacketed, gas-checked, buffered, and plain-based.  All or some.  Let me know.

And yes, my bench is uncluttered.  Safety is foremost in my reloading.  My three sons are precious to me.  They shoot my loads.

[Bergoobob]

As to your original question all you need is a barrel, ...........The thing about a 32 being inaccurate with bore wear is a myth...........Numrich Arms sells 32 Special Post 64 barrels...........And i believe they will fit the pre 64's.............I'd sell the gun........It will go very fast on a Gun auction..............Try a reload......or better yet try the new Leverevolution 32 special ammo when it comes out............and have your barrel re crowned...............................Bob

[Mikey]

JS44 - you said the bore did not look too bad but ya didn't say what that meant.  Is the bore pitted or does it look to be 'worn' - that is shallow rifling???  Your rifle was made in 64 - the earlier 32 Winchesters were made to shoot both black powder loads as well as smokeless loads and I wonder if your barrel was made for smokeless loads, which would have made the rifling more shallow than (possibly) for an earlier rifle meant to shoot both bp and smokeless.  If this is the case I would definately agree with LeverBar about shooting properly sized cast gas checked slugs - the accuracy may surprise you. 

There was an article in a recent Shooting Times magazine by Reid Coffield about lapping older barrels and he was dealing with a barrel that was pitted.  It is a good read for anyone with an older rifle and may be of particular interest to you with the 32. 

One great thing about both the 30-30 and the 32 Special is that both rifles shoot cast loads to the same specs as jacketed loads, which to me means that if your rifle can shoot a properly sized slug you should not lose any of the capability of that caliber by going to cast loadings.  HTH and JMTCW.  Mikey.

[Rangr44]

Pretty decent accuracy can be wrung from a levergun -provided the shooter treats it like a levergun, and not a boltgun.

No disrespect, but that means holding the levergun in both hands while shooting - and with the gun touching  nothing else, except the shooter's hands and shoulder.

That means holding the forearm tight, with the forward hand between the wood and the rest/sandbag while pulling the rifle straight back into the other shoulder at the same time.

That means pulling back with the trigger hand while keeping the trigger finger loose to articulate the trigger.

That means taking care that no part of the buttstock contacts anything but the shooter's shoulder - not the rear rest/sandbag and/or bench.

I've gotten 100yd groups under 1 1/2" from my leverguns, using the above method(s) - more than enough accuracy for anything larger than a Fox.

This is a .35 caliber: