vertical stringing with my .243

[toddx]

Guys, I am trying to get an accurate load going and am getting vertical stringing. 
Here is some of my latest results.  Any thoughts.

100gr Hornady bullet
H4350 2.8cc   2.750 COL
1.  2801  fps    several inches high above aim point. 
2.  2824  fps    several inches high above aim point. 
3.  2766  fps    1.5 inches above aim point.
4.  2956  fps    1 inch above aim point
5.  2861  fps    right on aim point.
6.  2849  fps    1.25 inches above aim point.
7.  2904  fps    2 inches above aim point.
8.  2855 fps     Could not find bullet placement  ( same hole)?


80 gr Nosler  2.750 COL
H4350 3.2cc
1.  3300   3 inches above and slightly left of aim point.
2.  NO Fire
3.  3267 fps  2.5 inches above aim point.
4.  3401 fps  5 inches above aim point.
5.  3341 fps  4 inches above aim point.
6.  3350 fps  4ish inches above aim point.


80gr nosler  2.750 COL
H4350 3.1 cc
1.   3144  fps  Dead center of aim point.
2.   3220  fps  3 inches high above aim point slightly left.
3.   3174  fps  2 inches high above aim point.
4.   3236  fps  2 inches high above aim point and slightly left.
5.   3228  fps  Dead center of aim point.
6.   3292  fps  5 inches high above aim point.
7.   3259  fps  4 inches high above aim point.


55 gr Sierra
H380  3.1cc  2.650 COL
1.   3603  fps  ½  inch high and 3/8 left of aim point.
2.   No fire
3.   3642  fps  1.5 inches above aim point.

Same as above  3.1cc Varget
1.   3642  Left of dead center 3/8 inch
2.   3623  ¼ inch high of dead center
3.   3724  ¾ high of dead center on aim point.     7/8 ctc.  3 shots.

You will notice there in not much rhyme or reason on bullet placement vs. fps.  Sometimes the faster bullet placed higher but sometimes it did not.  The one common thing is that  all the shots were very straight left to right.  If I were shooting at a 2x2 that was 12 inches tall I would have hit it every time. When I mentioned “left” it was not much ( 1 inch max)
So I have what I think you call vertical stringing?
Interesting how the round that was the shortest ( 55 gr ) 2.650 AOL had the best accuracy.  It could have been the bullet or the powder but interesting how the one that did the best was the shortest.  I am told that getting closer to the lands is better for accuracy and my rifle will accept a round that is 2.80 inches plus.  These bullets were shot at 45 yards.
I see that on the FAQ there are a bunch of loads to try but I was hoping to get a good load with the powder I had on hand.  Am I just way off on my COL? 
I am new to reloading.
Your thoughts?

[McLernon]

It's more likely that the latch and barrel lug are still getting to know each other so SNAP the rifle shut to make sure of getting good engagement and make sure that the latch and mating lug surfaces are kept DRY. Also be sure to support the front right under the hinge pin while shooting.

These guns are a little tricky to shoot off the bench but they will shoot.

All the success

Mc

[quickdtoo]

Time to get back to basics, try one of the better loads without the forend on, if it groups better, the forend needs attention. If you're shooting a 20" barreled superlight, you need to slow down and keep the barrel cool, that will help a lot. Full length bedding the forend will be the ultimate cure.

Tim

[garandsrus]

toddx,

I have a similar problem also with a Handi in .243.  I get vertical stringing of about 10" at 100 yds while the entire string is 1.5" wide.  I also had tried several different loads, but with that much stringing, it isn't an ammo problem.  I read the FAQ's and got some good information, but nothing that solved the problem.  I tried shimming the forearm with the equivalent of the rubber washer, but no improvement.  I have not shot the rifle without the forearm, which I may still try.

I believe my problem is that the barrel is not fit the frame properly.  This gun is new.  When I hold the rifle up to the light with the chamber closed, I can see light between the top of the barrel and top of the frame.  With the rifle locked up, I put a feeler gauge in the slot and a .003 slips right.  I am going to send the rifle back to H&R and have them re-fit the barrel and order some more barrels at the same time.  With this much of a gap, I suspect that the barrel to receiver fit is flexing quite a bit during each shot.

H&R told me that they will refund my shipping if there is a problem with the rifle.

John

[Mac11700]

First off...you need a load to be the benchmark for your hand loads..The rifle needs to be settled in with 1 or 2  loads...before chasing bullet holes all over the paper..with unproven hand loads...Each hand load must be loaded consistently ..down to the last grain of powder,to the case length,to the thickness of the brass..to the force used to seat the primer..The 243 can be exceedingly hard to load for if your brass isn't uniform..in weight..neck thickness..and  oal length

My advice FWIW...is to find a couple factory loads that will shoot consistently with the bullet weight & type you want to shoot...then use those measurement from the loaded round to start out with for your COL..You can also measure the neck thickness of the loaded round and check against your handloads..Some will vary a-lot...and this is due to neck thickness of that lot of brass that is being used..Getting closer to the lands for the best accuracy isn't always true for every rifle...and every bullet...some bullets do better off the lands as opposed to being seated close to them..You have already seen this with your rifle..

If you can't find a factory load that will shoot consistently...I would then look to some of the Handi tips & tricks that will help..Work in 3 shot groups allowing time for the barrel to cool properly..and increase the distance to 100 yards..or decrease it to 25 yards..If you sight your rifle for 1" low at 25 yards...you will find you close to the 3" high at 100 yard mark..which is about normal...and at 25 yards..you won't have to use as much magnification to shoot with..Which brings up another point...try using the lowest power setting on your scope at this distance..instead of the highest...Once you have it dialed in...then increase it to the maximum and see if the zero has changed..If it does then you have a scope issue that needs to be resolved..

One last thing..if you are changing bullets when shooting...are you starting from a fresh clean bore? Many times different bullets will foul the bore quicker until the bore is a bit seasoned...so you need to do a fair comparison when changing bullet types..so you need to start from a fresh bore...so clean it completely...

As others have said..shooting the handi from a rest with it supported under the hinge pin is usually gives the best accuracy...and don't forget to consistently pull all the way to the rear with the trigger...

Mac

[toddx]

thanks Mac11700 and others,
Very helpful ideas.
Appreciate it much.
Todd
PS--I did get about 2 inches at 100 with factory loads.

Also--What does properly cooled mean?  1 minute, 5 ,10?  My barrel never feels hot only warm.  It is windy and cold where I have to shoot right now so the barrel gets a cool down.  I have been waiting 1-3 minutes between shots, never rapid fired.

[Mac11700]

Your waiting enough between shots...Some folks just go out and shoot them till they are too hot to even touch when trying to sight in..Your doing it right...

Mac

[mitchell]

it sounds like your using those lee powder cups . if you are thats it ! my 243 will shoot groups better then i can hold but if i get sloppy at the reloading bench and go over or under the charge by .2 grains groups go down hill fast and i get vertical stringing. that would also explain why you have a 200 fps spred from shot to shot.

oh and you said something about how the shortest round (OAL) was the most accurate and why ?? well some guns just like it that way,  i load my 55 grainers real short and they group in the .2's that just the way it is sometimes.

[trotterlg]

With the number of no fires I would say you first need to figure that part out.  If you are getting poor primer ignition the may be the problem.  Larry

[toddx]

More great info from you Guys!
yes I am using the Lee scoops.  Got a scale on the way.
My misfires might have been due to my lubing the cases with a spray lube.  I was told to lube the cases to aid in my previous stuck case problem.  I will not lube any more and if I do it will be by hand each one separate. 
When I was seating my primers with my Classic Lee Loader, I had 2 go off on  me. 
I have since bought a Lee single stage press and dies for my 6.5x55 but the .243's are on back order.
I guess I will wait till I got all the right tools and not use the CLL again.  I just has to try that little loading tool. 
PS--my stuck case problem was the ammo.  The PMC stuff got stuck every time.  Rem and Fed have on a couple occassions but my last shooting had zero stuck cases.

Thanks to all, Glad I'm not fighting cancer or something, we would all be dead by now. lol.  hah. 

[quickdtoo]

The no fires would lead me to believe you're not pulling the trigger all the way to the rear each time, that's essential with the transfer bar, inconsistent pin strikes and inaccuracy can result, and in your case, no igntion too. Like I said, back to basics, read the Handi Basics 101, it's #1 on the list, and give it another shot!!

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,116451.msg1098375514.html#msg1098375514

[Mac11700]

I was told to lube the cases to aid in my previous stuck case problem.

Never Never Never leave any lubricant on the cases or in the chamber...This is a very bad thing to do...There can be times to leave the lubricant on the cases for some case forming techniques...but NEVER for normal reloading...I go as far as to wipe my cases with alcohol and same for the chamber before shooting...With a proper chamber and working ejector or extractor you shouldn't get any stuck cases with normal reloads..or factory loads..

Mac

[AKbuilder]

When I was seating my primers with my Classic Lee Loader, I had 2 go off on  me. 

I am concerned with two primers detonating during reloading.  Is this normal guys?  I have never had a primer detonate during reloading.  I have been reloading for a lot of years.  I use the Lee hand primer tool, or an RCBS single stage press. 

Thanks,
Paul

[quickdtoo]

I've read of others that had primers detonate when using the Lee Loader, but I've also read of handloaders that had been loading with them for decades and never had a primer issue, so I think it's operator error even tho those that have had the problem will deny it.

Tim

http://leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1202253295.547=/html/catalog/cleeloader.html

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/51