accuaracy improvements??

[dcl]

Hi guys. Been reading alot here and a few other places. Love this site by the way. tons of good info here. thank you. What I am wondering. I have a couple of blackhawks, both of which shoot ok. I would like to pick your collective brains and see what gunsmithing improvments would help in the accuracy dept. I shoot cast bullets exclusively. Wondering about opening up the cylinder throats and lengthening the forcing cone. a  smith i talked with locally said it was a waste of time  and $$ to mess with rugers. so i walked out of there quickly. I'm ok with the sights on the blackhawks, but might look into a trigger job also. Anything else to consider? thanks for any help you can offer. dave

[kennisondan]

Is your accuracy lacking ? you could define that for the other readers, to get best inputs..
a trigger job is always a good idea.
have you tried other rounds, or powders, bullet weights ? bullets shapes, etc can make a big difference.
you could do a search to check into slugging the cylinders and barrel and getting recommendations of the best size of cast bullets for your measurements you find.. and then you will also be able to get reccomendations for cutting the forcing cone, maybe work on the barrel like firelapping removing right spots, etc. , reaming the cylinders; some of this you can do and some you can have done at your direction..

or you could do it the easy way and send those rascals to a smith that understands how to work on rugers .. cause what the one you talked to was really saying was : I do not have any idea...
you can have the gun looked at by a real smith, and decide what you would pay for from what he suggests... they are surprisingly easy to work with and will evaluate and make reccomendations while you learn more from others who are knowlegeable here about what they have done and would do... again , you will hear about having a trigger job and tightening / removing endplay; reducing the cylinder gap; making the barrel and cylinder sizes match and work together... what is needed may be cheaper than you think and affordable... even if extensive work is needed.
I understand that on a gun that does not shoot well it will make all the difference... on a gun that shoots well already it will likely make a positive noticeable difference worth doing and paying for regardless.
in the instance that the guns measurements of bore and cylinder are so incongruent as to require extensive replacement of expensive parts and ht egun is not worth a lot to replace... well .. some guns will better be replaced as they are older and out of pocket outlay may be more than it would cost to start over. Keep the questions coming to the guys here that have great experience... this is from what I am learning about ... but you need to get opinions on what others suggest you could do yourself, if you decide that going to a real good smith is not what you want to do right off.

that is what I would look into .. I just know the questions at this stage of my learning... not the answers.
dk

[okie john]

On a stock Ruger, I'd open the throats if needed and lap the bore if there was a choke. A trigger job is mandatory, and will probably do as much to improve your shooting as anything. I'd also add a Wolf extra-strength mainspring and maybe a Belt Mountain base pin. The next stop from there is a line-bored cylinder in a full-custom gun.


Okie John

[2 dogs]

I have had Alan Harton "Maximize" quite a few Ruger revolvers for me. He is an extremely fine welder and can add material where it needs to be to correct sloppy tolerances. I have him weld the bolt on one side or the other to correct the alignment as much as possible. I also have him weld up the gas ring and set the cylinder all the way back, cut the cylinder face square, and correct the barrel cylinder gap to proper dimensions. The cylinder throats should be recut for your particular cast bullet. Any forcing cone or crown issues are addressed here as well. Add a Belt Mtn. base pin of your choice. This gives you a revolver that is much tighter than factory with as correct alignment as you can get without lineboring a new cylinder.

Other mods I have Harton perform are a trigger job with a trigger stop. I usually install a Bowen rear sight and pinned in front blade. This makes the revolver MUCH more shootable. Some nice touches are his Black Powder chamfer and a crescent ejector rod. He makes really nice grips too, or you can just have him fit the ones that come from the factory so they are more useable....

Check out his work at gallery.mac.com/aharton

email me at fcgarza0640 for any specific pics.

[2 dogs]

I forgot to mention that Ruger revolvers often have constriction in the barrel where it is threaded into the reciever. I have had good luck correcting this issue by firelapping.

[Graybeard]

I think you need to slow down and first figure out what's wrong or needed before having work done that might help or might actually hurt. "lengthening the forcing cone" is a term I associate mostly with shotguns not handguns. You don't actually lengthen one on a revolver what you do is change the angle. Might be needed might not it can help if there is a problem there.

Opening the throats is a job best done ONLY if they are too small now. You first need to determine what size they are currently and what the bore diameter is then you'll be in a postition to decide if that's needed or if it's not.

Don't get the cart before the horse here.

[dcl]

Thanks for the quick replies guys. To answer a few questions, the accuracy of the guns is lacking for sure when compared to other revolvers of the same calibers. My bisley shoots groups close to twice the size of my 2 Smith 29s. Ive tried 4-5 different bullets,all kinds of powder- bullet combos in the 44s. The smith seems to eat them all while the ruger is picky and the results arent great. The 45 colt just plain wont shoot. Like 6 inch groups at 25 yards. Im not expecting to win any bullseye contests, just would like to be happy with the grouping. I am sure the triggers need help and will look into the spring kits and base pins. Is there someplace to get the proper throat measurements? that sounds easy enough to check. I have just about made up my mind on the 45 colt to send it out for a proper work over. But one thing at a time. Thanks again for the help. I'm sure I'll have more questions for you guys. take care. dave

[Lloyd Smale]

Any ruger i get gets a belt mountain pin and a action job. Stay away from the spring kits as they dont do anything to eliminate creap in your trigger. Take the money you were going to spend on a spring kit and put it toward a proper action job. I usually replace my sights with a bowen rear and a post front but thats a personal thing. I shoot better with them but some do fine with the stock sights. Most 45 cal rugers can use a throating job. Most of the other calibers are fine as is. Then i look for constictions where the barrel is screwed to the frame. If there is one lap it out. Most of my stock rugers have been lapped as it also helps with leading by taking any rough spots out of the barrel. The biggest improvement is going to be in load developement.  Cast bullet shooting involves more experimenting then jacketed. Tuning your load with different powders primers charge weights alloys lubes and bullet sizing and bullet design and weight willl make the biggest change in accuracy. Alot of the problems in a ruger can be worked around with load developement. You also never stated what kind of accuracy your getting. Some guys have some pretty high expectations on how well a stock gun should shoot. Most will outshoot the owner if your not the type that puts thousands of rounds a year down the barrel or dont know proper bench shooting techniques. to me a stock ruger should be capable of shooting a 2 inch 25 yard 6 shot group with a proper handload. There not custom guns and dont expect one hole groups out of them. Especially if youve only tried a few loads or a couple different cast bullets. I have about 20 molds in 44 and 45 that i experiment with in every gun i load for. Sometimes it just takes alot of work. You can imagine how many rounds are shot when you take 20 molds and cast each out of a couple alloys then each of those sized to two or three differnt sizes then try each of those with 4 or 5 different powders and then again each of those with 2 or three different primers. Hopefully I run into  a majic load before i have to go through them all but sometimes with some guns it takes shooting every combination and then settling on the best one. So as you can see your work will do more to improve accuracy then anything. The only absolute must is a good trigger. You CANT shoot one hole groups with a 8 lb creapy trigger.

[warrior1]

i believe the other posters have pretty well covered the subject. good luck , have fun shooting.
dan