Zinc?

[phalanx]

A question has come up on another board.
Casting lead bullets in a bolt ,lever or single shot rifle is fine ,but in a semi auto on a gas system is real bad Ju Ju.
Double D , told me to try Zinc on Cannon balls and that it was a better substance to use.
Have any of you guys ever used it as a lead substitute in a cast bullet ?
And do you know if it would work in a gas system ?

[GGaskill]

There is some history of home casting zinc bullets.  It was more common in the sixties.  Melting zinc contaminates the melting pot, dipper and mould for casting lead so separate tools should be used for each metal.

Zinc bullets are MUCH harder than lead bullets and are impractical to size.  I am not sure whether lubrication is needed so one should experiment with that.  The extreme hardness causes fragmentation instead of expansion in the target.  That shouldn't matter for paper targets but will cause meat loss in game. 

Zinc melting also requires higher temperatures so one should not plan on using aluminum moulds.  The higher temperature will also cause slightly different finished dimensions, probably slightly larger diameter, so this should be verified before casting a whole lot of bullets from a mould that casts large.

[Artilleryman]

This really doesn't seem to be the place for this topic.  However from what I remember when I was into doing a lot of cast bullet reloading it seems to me that you have to run the velocity up high enough to get the semi-auto to function that leads to leading.  The method to solve that problem was to use gas checks.  I think running zinc would cause undue wear on the barrel.  I could be wrong though. 

[Cat Whisperer]

(If this sounds a little dis-jointed it's because the thread was moved from Blackpowder Mortars and Cannons.)

I agree, there ARE folks that have used Zinc for cast bullets.  It's a little light (having the same density (about) as iron.

From what I read about it in the 1960's (maybe late '50's) it is a) more difficult to cast because of higher temperatures needed; b) not good for long distances because of lower BC's; and c) did well in not fowling the barrel. 

Not sure about what it would do to a gas system, but Ed Harris (on Cast Bullet Assn Forum) recommended recently to clean out the AR15 gas tube (when used with lead) with a spray cleaner from the connection to the bolt carrier.

[phalanx]

Thank you ,I only learned about Zinc on this board ,I had no idea i would be in the wrong place ,sorry.

[phalanx]

Its cool ,i contacted Lyman and they Emailed me a book on it.

[Cat Whisperer]

Its cool ,i contacted Lyman and they Emailed me a book on it.

We expect a comprehensive book review when you've digested it!

[phalanx]

Cat ,as i posted on the thread below this ,i am interested in what it is the Spanish did.
I bought some Spanish ammo once in 9mm and some in 8mm .
It was lead ,but it had a strange flashing on the outside.
Almost a dark gold in color ,it wasn't as uniform as a copper jacket ,but it worked fine in an old FNH rifle i had in 8mm that used a gas system.
It wasn't great ammo but it wasn't junk either.
The bullets looked more like they were dipped in the coating ,then re sized.
I still have some of the 9mm ,if you guys would like a photo ,perhaps together we can figure this out.
The packages it came in were marked 1947 ,so it was old stuff ,but the cases were brass.
I was always puzzled by it ,to be hard enough to not foul a gas system ,what kind of re sizing die would you have to have ?
After reading this thread i cut the flashing with a saw ,it is fairly thick ,so they would have had to dip it a few times to get it to the desired thickness.
And who knows what the original lead bullet size was.

[Cat Whisperer]

To address one question - the coating - is it a paint or is it a plating?  How thick is it?  Is it over the entire projectile or both the bullet and the casing?

[phalanx]

OK ,Cat ,Thank you for taking the time to help us figure this out
These are the 9mm i have let from that bunch ,i shot all the 8mmx57 in that old FNH ,but they basically looked the same.
A friend of mine still has some of the 8mm ,if you need to see it also.
The center round is one we scraped the coating off of ,it wasn't easy ,it is a very thin coating ,but it is tough ,and it is crude.
But it works.

I have access to a colt 9mm carbine ,are they gas operated ? the owner is game to try it.
He believes it is a gas system.
As you can see this wasn't a complicated process ,more like a dip.
And yes the entire bullet is coated in it.

[Cat Whisperer]

Hmmm.

Looks like the bullet and not the case is coated.  But that's a guess.

Try lightly scraping the surface of the bullet.  If it's plating it's likely to have been done to provide a hard coating to resist corrosion and/or keep the lead from touching the barrel.

If the coating is over the case and the bullet it may be a dip to provide waterproofing - like a lacquer finish.

Scraping lightly will tell you SOMETHING of the hardness of the coating.

I assume the 9mm Colt is an AR.  Most generally gas operated unless custom modified to use a piston.  Check out Ed Harris' comment about cleaning out the gas tube using a spray cleaner from the breech end (on Cast Bullet Assn forum).

I would be MORE concerned about the ammo being corrosively primed - and ensure you cleaned it with hot soapy water first then using conventional cleaners (or use military bore cleaner).

[phalanx]

Cat ,He went and shot about 60 rounds through the AR.
He said it is a gas system and he didn't have Any failures ,but he said it wasn't a real hot load.
We pulled a bullet and the entire thing looks like this ,and like i said it is a hard coating.
The base of the bullet has a little hole in it that looks like some screw went into it ,like it was dipped into the coating.
Bullet weight isn't exact ,it varies about 5% on what i believe to be a 90 gr bullet.
If i knew what this coating was i would try to duplicate it.
It has the consistency of soft brass.

[Cat Whisperer]

If you scrape a bit of it off into a small pile, and then apply heat (or put it on an electric burner of the stove) does it:  a) melt (i.e. is it metalic) or does it burn or char (i.e. is it organic or mineral).