This and That!!!

[Smokin4590]

Just my two cents, from the new guy! Been reading these posts this evening! Great topics, good answers! So here's some more thoughts to ponder!! Italian single shot copys both Sharps and Remington are fair at best. Replace the barrel with a name brand, with known twist and bore diameter. Then it might shoot good! Watch your breech block for signs of cracking, several rolling block copys have came apart on the range due to breech block problems! The twist rate and bore diameter should be checked before you decide to purchase one! Have inspected three so far that were advertised as 1 in 18 twist with .458 bore only to be a 1 in 20 twist with a .460 bore! Not exactly truth in advertising!
Duplex loads- A no-no in an original single shot! No matter how skilled and carefull you are! Duplexing causes unknown pressure limits, this can do bad things to your rifle and even you! Most duplex because it burns most of the fouling out of the barrel, however after firing such a load have you noticed that the rifle kicked harder? Cartridge was a little harder to extract? Plus duplex loads on anything  shortens case life due to higher pressure at the base of case!  Thins out the brass at the base!! This can be an expensive way to go if your duplexing anything bigger than a 45-70!
Powder compression dies- A big waste of money! All the compression you will ever need on a black powder cartridge is 1/16 of an inch if that! You can do this with your over powder wad and a wood dowell, and if you think this is slower than the die think again! Line up 20 charged cases and do 10 by hand and 10 in the die. The hand is quicker than the die! How can the hand method be accurate you ask? If you mark your compression limit on the dowell, including your seating depth,wad and the 1/16 compression all falls into place rather quickly!
I posted this for your benefit! Not to make anyone mad! If I did , forgive me! Been doing this game for a long time, longer than most! I know what works and what don't!  At least with my rifle!!  Have seen guy's get rich selling garbage to make the game easyer, while it makes you poorer! And the results are still the same! Keep it simple! If it works dont change it! And most important of all, Every time you pull that trigger on that old single shot your closer to history than most folk ever will be! Enjoy it!!!


A man and his rifle become one!

[Aladin]

Hey Smokin.. Methinks the easiest way to compress is with a hard bullet having the driver dia turned down. Ya seat, remove that undersized and seat the full dia slug. SLick and fast.

Them IT-tal--iiannn shooters get high marks on various talk shops per accuracy. The fella that hauls for them US wise states their broach cut to exacting standards. Makes me think it'd be hard to match those specs..  a good barrel is a good barrel no matter the driller.  But I would grant ya some of those off brands are just that-- way off the mark.

Methinks the BPCR game is like the cast bullet game-- full of old wives' tales handed down by them that really don't have the overall grip. And those olden 'roooles' keep many new in the dark. 'Pears to me the drop tube can be thrown away, along with soft lead alloy, bees wax in the lube, and some of those flimsy 'wads' cut to 'protect' the bullet base.  IF I could tell the beginner one thing it'd be 'use a wad that seals combustion gases'. Some use plastic-- I use thick tablet or solid cardboard cut OVERSIZED,  making a tight fit into that case. No gas goes up that bullet side that ways-- no gas cutting, no leading-- your starting right in square one that ways. THen the lube-- it has to flow in your temp range. That hard stuff which makes loading so easy and the bullets look neat ain't gonna make the trip IF it don't slump back and work at bullet accelleration. I hear these guys talk about cutting their barrels back cause of dry 'last couple inches'. I gringe, ain't no way... Find an optimum burn rate for that fuel and use another LUBE.....

End of rant. Thanks for puttin' up with it all. Rebuttals/friendly squabbles invited.

[Smokin4590]

Aladin

Love a good squable! No toes stepped on here! Sometimes I forget my manners! What works for me might not work for the next guy! On the copies, I do hear some shoot quite well out of the box, but have never seen this in person! Most I have seen needed considerable work just to cut paper at 100 yards. I was lucky enough to buy an Original RB in 45-90 many moons ago, may not be pretty, gets fussy at times but has never left me hungry around hunting season, or disapointed at the matches! Of course when you shoot the same rifle for 30+ years on a regular basic, you get quite good with it! The last 15 have been real fun since the sport has taken hold! Any way nice to meet you! Hope I missed your toes!
Keep it simple!


A man and his rifle become one!

[Aladin]

Smokin' no bruised toes here. Your method produces results and that's what matters. Thought your original post contained a lotta meat-- some good pts-- found no disagreement.

I see some on other 'yack' forums who think it's their's or bust.  Methinks get the basics down and this let this BLACK be the fun it outta beee.

[KING]

I have been doing BPCR fer just 2 yrs,and the more information that is given out,the better a shooter I can become...I have yet to see on here anything that could not be applied in a manner to improve groups or the enjoyment of shooting dat  HOLY BLACK..... :-D

[Omaha Poke]

I will put my Italian Pedersoli 1874 Sharps up against any brand of Sharps rifle on the market as far as accuracy goes.  I shot right along with 3 and 4 thousand dollar rifles at the Mathew Quigley shoot in June, and so did a number of top shooters.

[KING]

:-D I have three(2) PEDERSOLI rifles,a .45-70 and a .45-120...both shoot far better that i am able to shoot em..It takes a while trying to balance the componants to get an accurate round but its fun..the .45-70 has had just about 16oo rounds through it,and i now have a good,solid accurate round for that with a LYMAN RN that weights out at 518 grns...The postell that i shoot weighs out to about 525...both will shoot about 1.5 in the .45-70..the bigger ..45-120 sure likes that 405 grn flat point...no tang site on this one,but I do have a target for six rounds at 100 yards that will to 1.3/4 inches......Ialso have a C.SHARPS IN THE LITTLE .50-140-700...THAT IS ONE ACCURATE RIFLE IN ANYBODIES BOOK..aLSO THERE IS A taylors in .45-70 for hunting with,have not don a lotta work for it yet,but i should cast this week and then im going to work up a load for it..probably be the 405 gr,and the rn fer grins...sure is fun

[Aladin]

King be interastin' if ya posted the loads for your guns..

[KING]

O.K...HERE YA GO ALADIN...MY .45-70..rem case/FED 215M FER A PRIMER...65grs of 2f GOEX...POWDER HAS A WAD OVER IT(.060 VEG. FIBRE TYPE)...Projo is a LYMAN HAND CAST .458 (WW LEAD) with SPG LUBE...oal is 2.95 inches....CHRONY IS 1160GPS.....I USE THE SAME LOAD WITH THE lyman postell and it gets about same speed.....both are good in my two pedersoli....45-120...bell case..FED 215M PRIMER...120 goex cart..i .o6o over powder wad.projo 405 grn flat point..CHRONY 1550..it also is an accurate load for this gun....i lso used SPG AS A LUBE..SOMETIMES I WILL GET A BETTER GROUP with 3f goex with the rn projo.......cant find the oal on the .45-120,but it is seated so it is just touching the rifling...hope ya find it interesting my friend....DA HOLEY BLACK is the only way to go with these..as marsh would say...king

[KING]

:oops: ALADIN....sorry i took so long to get u those bp loads...the other day i had to clean up my...OFFICE....cause the realtor had to show the house to sumone or something that might wanna buy it...this is so i can go up the the U.P. of Mi., and start a life after being a police type officer fer so many years..well..i had to go through about 60 targets..each target has allthe chrony info on it and the load construction had written on it...i must have over 40 loads just for the .45-70.  Most are ok..a few are real smokers fer accuracy..I tried to give ya the best that I could find at this time..I have more information around here someplace but one of the people that came in dont like bangie type thingies so i had to show em the door..the other did not like animals so i guess i can mess my..office up again cause i dont think they well be back fer awhile...fer your info..try to find the books written by PAUL MATTHEWS AND mike ventorino....THEY BE GOOD BOOKS TO START...IF YA WORK UP A LOAD,LET ME KNOW...IM ALWAYS INTERESTED...KING

[Aladin]

O.K...HERE YA GO ALADIN...MY .45-70..rem case/FED 215M FER A PRIMER...65grs of 2f GOEX...POWDER HAS A WAD OVER IT(.060 VEG. FIBRE TYPE)...Projo is a LYMAN HAND CAST .458 (WW LEAD) with SPG LUBE...oal is 2.95 inches....CHRONY IS 1160GPS.....I USE THE SAME LOAD WITH THE lyman postell and it gets about same speed.....both are good in my two pedersoli....45-120...bell case..FED 215M PRIMER...120 goex cart..i .o6o over powder wad.projo 405 grn flat point..CHRONY 1550..it also is an accurate load for this gun....i lso used SPG AS A LUBE..SOMETIMES I WILL GET A BETTER GROUP with 3f goex with the rn projo.......cant find the oal on the .45-120,but it is seated so it is just touching the rifling...hope ya find it interesting my friend....DA HOLEY BLACK is the only way to go with these..as marsh would say...king

King interastin' to be sure.  I like to compare how different guns do for speed. Course this forgets powder lots surely differ as to FPS.

The lot of 2F I just finished made right at 1100 with 63 grs [I might check that] albeit using 210's with ww alloy Postells. 71 grs of same made 1180.

My lot of 3F was best. The accuracy loading of 1100 fps again makes a tight moa if I can hold it [scope too]. This with around 56 grs. 69 grs of same turns out 1248 FPS again with the P's. These loads with no neck tension and against the rifled part. All WW brass.

Yet my pipe likes neck tension with the fake stuff. Gonna revisit such with the real thang.

[KING]

o.k....I GOTS MY TARGETS AND INFO OUT AGAIN...MY LOT NUMBER ON THE 2F IS 02 75/01JA12B...MY CHRONY SPEEDS PRETTY MUCH ACROSS THE BOARD READ..1158/1143/1128/11751116/1125/1129/1143/1141/1140..OAL VARIED FROM 2.93 TO 2.95..ALL WERE WITH THE lyman rn with one wad over the powder....all with fed 215....fer kicks..60 of cart. got me 1011 and a lousy target.....70 of cart. got me 1050...with a lousy target...about 6 inch spread..70 of 2f with a postell got me the following......1195/1151lymrn/1175lymrn/1168lymrn/1185postell/1160....75 of 2f got me..1356lyman rn/1220lym rn..13/4 inch...75 of cart. got me1089 and an 8 inch target......I think i have the postell down pretty good,but,i am working on the rn....i varied the lead mixture from 1-40 to 1-20 which is roughly ww,its saeco 6-7 on my tester....hope this helps ya.it sure is fun playing with it aint it.......i wanted to load so i could shoot wednesday,but,gotta cast first,,,ran outta rn :oops:

[KING]

:-D This is fun..aint it..ok..with 70 of 2f..postell slug,215 primer..i got 1152 fer the low end...1185 for the high end.....deviation was 9 and oal was 3.04...i gots lotsa loads son..ya otta be here lookin at the targets...cats and two laabs helping........i would say that we are as close as we is gunna gets on speed..with yer 1180 with 71 2f annapostell..mine was a ww also...its a ten shot target..i always shoot 10 rounds...i have two groups kinda with this target..about 2inches and another about 13/4...problem is..i cant remember if i cleaned after shooting 5 rounds or not...sorry.....

[Omaha Poke]

In reply to your post about Italian Sharps and rolling blocks, I have  a Pedersoli 1874 Sharps that I have put over 1,000 rounds through so far.  I shot it at theMathew Quigley shoot in MT this June, my first time at any long range shooting, and finished right in the middle of the pack of 416 shooters from 34 different States and a couple of other countries.  I have shot black, duplex, and smokeless in this rifle and it delivers outstanding accuracy with anything I feed it.  I shoot cast lead (45-70), in five different bullet weights from 350 to 550 grains, both lube groved and paper patched.  

I have two targets that I put two ten shot groups with all bullet holes touching and that could be covered with a silver dollar.  

A few of the best shooters I know shoot the same rifle and are very pleased with them.  Most people I know who have owned and shot a Pedersoli extensively swear by them, not at them.  I also own a C.Sharps 45-110, and a Browning BPCR 45-70.  The Pedersoli may not be as pretty, but it shoots every bit as good as either, for much less money  :lol: I also do some CAS and use an Uberti 1873 Win, and 3.5" Thunderer revolver, both with complete satisfaction.  

Just thought I would add my 2 cents worth.  Happy Holidays, Poke

[Timberlake]

Omaha Poke,

Have you ever slugged the barrel on your "74 Pedersoli?  I've heard and seen some that are US in the groove.  Just curious.

Hey, nice site you folks have here.