TC Encore Groups shift to the lower right!

[Greebe]

I'm new here and was referred here from the Ruger forum.  This is the original post over there and then some of the other things that I added later to the post to help clarify a bit.  Here goes.

So I have this new TC Encore, and the .223 Rem barrel does strange things.

Took it out yesterday, shot five rounds down range at 150 yds and got a nice group right in the center of the target. I then went and put up a new target, went back to the same place and shot five more rounds. Guess what, they are at the 4 o'clock position about 5-6 inches away from the first group. The group was still nice but in a totally different place than before.

I have had this barrel do this every time I have shot it. It is driving me crazy. It will start off good and then the groups shift.

First I thought that it might be that the forearm was getting loose, but it is tight, but not over tight. Then I thought that it could be that after a few shots the barrel is getting dirty and that could be it, but the group is still nice and tight.

So what else am I missing. Is this common with the .223 barrels? Could it by my crosshairs are shifting due to parallax?

It was about 5 degrees F outside when I was shooting. After the five shots, I snowmachined down to my target. When I got there I then proceeded to shoot 12 rounds into it with my Blackhawk, then replace the target, snowmachine back to where I was originally shooting the .223, and shoot 5 more rounds.

From the time of my last shot of the first five shot string to the time of the first shot of the second string was probably about 10 minutes in 5F weather, and the barrel was very cold to the touch again.

This makes me think that the shifting of the group is not a cold barrel issue.

The only thing I can think is that possibly it is the scope. I am using a Nikon 2-7 Pro-staff which is actually a shotgun scope. The parallax is set at 75 yds, so theoretically this could account for the shift, but there is a catch to that one. Both groups were in the inch range, just in different place to each other. Also since this is a singe shot, I broke the cheek weld each and every shot, standing up, then taking my gloves off, reloading , and then finally sitting back on my feet with the snowmachine acting as a benchrest. This is the way I shoot in the winter and it has proved me with very good results.

As far as the scope, I have used it on a Marlin 336 .35Rem with excellent results and no shifting of groups. This makes me think that the parallax thing is not an issue, but who knows.

One more thing. I also have a .350 Rem Mag barrel for the Encore and I am able to keep all rounds within an inch at 150 yds without a problem even with the punishing recoil.

The barrel and hinge pin are not a very tight fit. If you hold the fore end in one hand and the but stock in the other you can wiggle the barrel from side to side a little bit. This is something I noticed earlier, but discounted because I figured that since the scope was attached to the barrel that it wouldn't make any difference.

Maybe barrel harmonics is the problem. I might add that after the first string that the rifle was re slung on my back and then taken off again to shoot the second string. That could have easily shifted the barrel from one side to the other.

Also I rested the fore end in the same place each time, but at the location of the front sling mount. Probably not the best place.

Thanks for listening to my long ramble.
Greebe

[KN]

Did you stop st 2 groups? What happens with the 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. Do they settle in with the second group or do they move off some where also. 2 groups isn't enough to tell me much about how a barrel will shoot. My 22/250 will start off 4" high and about 2" left for the first 3 or 4 shots from a clean barrel, stringing back to center and settling down after its fouled a bit. Was the rifle at that temp when you started or was it warm (in a truck perhaps) for the first group?     KN

[sweetwyominghome]

While it is a controversial and touchy subject, given the scenario you have described, a 1x hinge pin will do more to settle your groups and keep the POI consistent moreso than anything else.

I've been shooting Contenders since shortly after they were introduced and have gone through a fair number of Encores. I base my claim on experience and can substantiate it as well.

I'm a stickler for precision and will not tolerate shifting points of impact. And no, I do not have pins in all of my setups as some do just fine without them. But those that do feature it display notable improvement.

You'll get folks claiming no benefit, and perhaps they did not see any gain -- and perhaps their rigs simply weren't capable of better accuracy/consistency or that their shooting style did not permit noticeable improvement.

But give it a try and see for yourself. Heck, it's only a few bucks...

Let us know how it turns out.

[DDelle338]

I’d like to know what happens with subsequent groups also. But just from what you’ve stated so far, I’d put my money on the clean vs. fouled barrel scenario. I have a heavy barrel .223 barrel for my encore also and this is the only barrel that I have that does this. Mine will shoot the first two shots about 1.5" high then settle in for all the rest. Last weekend I went to the range and shot 130 shots without cleaning the barrel. The first 2 were that 1.5" high and then all the rest were right where they were supposed to be. Near the end of the day I shot many shots in a row without letting the barrel cool down. And then a 10 shot string of what I'd call "rapid fire" from a single shot. The barrel got real hot but the POI didn't shift.

[bull]

This may or may not be relevant, but how are you resting your rifle? Encores and contenders usually prefer to be rested on bags as close to the hinge pin as possible, but not always. Changes in pressures on the forearm can effectively put torque on the hinge pin, especially if you do notice some wiggle when assembled. Sometimes it pays to try different holds. Just something to think about.

bull