Author Topic: How to legally ship a pistol (Read 1259 times)

cbourbeau32 · « **on:** February 24, 2008, 08:38:49 AM »

Hello all. I am getting ready to sell a couple of my pistols so I can afford to upgrade. What is the legal way to ship pistols? I am a non FFL. Any replies would be appreciated. Thanks, Charlie

Norm1057 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 24, 2008, 09:37:54 AM »

A few years a go I bought a Ruger in Wy for a fair price. After that experience, I will never do that again regardless of the price. I knew I would not be in town by the time the waiting period was over but thought it would be no problem to find a dealer at home in NM to coordinate the shipping for me. After getting home, neither dealer wanted to pick up the phone and talk to the other. From what both fellars told me, only a licensed dealer could send firearms through the mail and then only to another dealer. It turned out not being worth the effort.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #2 on:** February 24, 2008, 10:23:21 AM »

only way to ship a handgun is ffl to ffl

warrior1 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 24, 2008, 02:36:31 PM »

+1 what lloyd says.

BlkHawk73 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 24, 2008, 03:19:52 PM »

Actually a non-FFL may legally ship a handgun to a out of state FFL holder. Persuant to BATFE regualtions:

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

corbanzo · « **Reply #5 on:** February 24, 2008, 07:37:09 PM »

So if I am reading this correctly, then you can ship a firearm to a person in your own state without any FFL's involved?

cbourbeau32 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 25, 2008, 12:41:16 AM »

That's the way I understand it from looking at the ATF's FAQ section of their website. Charlie

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #7 on:** February 25, 2008, 12:52:40 AM »

not in michigan! You can sell to a person in your own state without a ffl dealer involved but if you ship it it has to go to an ffl dealer.

Graybeard · « **Reply #8 on:** February 25, 2008, 02:38:34 AM »

NO NO NO NO. That is NOT for change of ownership but rather to a manufacturer or gunsmith where it will be returned. In the other thread I mentioned that someone would bring this up in error.

Quote from: BlkHawk73 on February 24, 2008, 03:19:52 PM

Actually a non-FFL may legally ship a handgun to a out of state FFL holder. Persuant to BATFE regualtions:

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

Heavy C · « **Reply #9 on:** February 25, 2008, 08:15:42 AM »

Yep, GB is right. The key is change in ownership. For example, here in Texas you can do a face to face without the involvement of an FFL. Once you ship, you have to send to an FFL. Because you do not hold a license it will have to be overnight shipping - pricey.

Good luck!

shermbob · « **Reply #10 on:** February 25, 2008, 09:58:37 AM »

cbourbeau32
Lets make this simple FFL to FFL!! Saves a lot of questions and will keep you from a lot of trouble and in most cases is not that expensive.
shermbob

cbourbeau32 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 25, 2008, 03:34:40 PM »

I don't know if I read the ATF rules the same as everyone else. But my FFL only charges $15 plus shipping to ship a pistol so that should be few dollars less than overnight shipping with alot more piece of mind. Thanks for all the input and I didn't mean to cause any confusion. Charlie

IronAir · « **Reply #12 on:** February 26, 2008, 07:29:24 PM »

Are you talking about selling to someone in your own state, or in another state?

I know it would be dumb to say that you guy's are incorrect, and that the laws only apply to interstate commerce, so I am not going to say that. What I am going to do is continue reading Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 44 and try to figure out where it says that I can't sell and ship a handgun to someone from my own state without the use of a licensee. It may very well be in there, but I have yet to find it. If someone could cut and paste the wording that applies here that would be great.

I was looking on here http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/18/parts/i/chapters/44/toc.html which I know is not official, but I thought it would be good enough.

Jim n Iowa · « **Reply #13 on:** March 05, 2008, 03:19:11 PM »

For what its worth, I wanted to buy a rifle on-line, with the mo-certified check fee, shipping fees, the local gun dealers wanted $55.00 min to deal with it, unless it was a one of a kind, I could get a new one built my way. No way will I attempt to buy a gun on-line again. I want to see and hold the product.
Jim

S.B. · « **Reply #14 on:** March 05, 2008, 04:11:13 PM »

Quote from: BlkHawk73 on February 24, 2008, 03:19:52 PM

Actually a non-FFL may legally ship a handgun to a out of state FFL holder. Persuant to BATFE regualtions:

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

Yes but, selling to a dealer you don't know, your going to lose money, everytime!

warrior1 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 06, 2008, 03:02:17 AM »

jim, did you check with gunbroker and auction arms for their list of transfer agents,
i've found the best route is ffl to ffl with handguns,and most times it is less than shipping it myself. remember your ffl takes the load off you and gets it right the first time.dan

barber · « **Reply #16 on:** March 06, 2008, 05:42:01 AM »

I ship handguns out of state to mfg's, Like Ruger, regular UPS shipping, (not overnight) declare the gun, for about $10,00 In state, just ship it, no hassle

Graybeard · « **Reply #17 on:** March 06, 2008, 06:46:36 AM »

Then you are clearly violating UPS Policy and if you are misrepresenting to them what you are shipping are also in violation of Federal law. I'm really getting tired of folks making posts like this on here freely admitting to violations of law and/or proper shipping policies for the various shippers allowed by law to ship firearms.

I'm going to start ending memberships of folks who insist on posting such illegalities. Argue and you'll be the first to go.

S.B. · « **Reply #18 on:** March 06, 2008, 07:16:13 AM »

Please obey all federal and local laws, we don't need more and stricter gun laws? A few bad apples can spoil the whole barrel.

corbanzo · « **Reply #19 on:** March 06, 2008, 11:12:12 AM »

Here is something that I didn't know:

UPS stores are separate entities, and they all have their own rules on shipping guns. Went to one in anchorage, and they said I had to drive all the way out to the one at the airport to ship guns back to the manufacturer. That's about half an hour out of my way, both ways! So when I got to Wasilla, asked them about it, and they said yeah they ship them, and that some don't, cause they are owned by different people. Glad I figured that one out... so even with UPS, make sure you call the store first to make sure they ship guns.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #20 on:** March 06, 2008, 11:25:59 AM »

UPS regs state that firearms can't be accepted at their stores, so ya better check first as corbanzo said, and Alaska may have some exceptions as he noted which apparently contradict their own regs as even third party retailers that aren't UPS stores can't accept firearms.

Tim

Getting Your Firearm Shipment to UPS
You can only ship your package that contains a handgun from UPS daily pickup accounts or through UPS Customer Centers (counters at UPS operational facilities). Note: Handguns are not accepted for shipment through UPS Internet Shipping, UPS Drop Boxes, or UPS On-Call PickupSM, or at The UPS Store® or any third party retailer.
When you are shipping a package that contains a handgun, you must verbally notify the UPS driver or UPS Customer Center clerk.
You can ship a firearm (excluding handguns, which are discussed above), from a UPS daily pickup account, UPS On-Call Pickup, One-Time Pickup, or a UPS Customer Center. Note: Firearms are not accepted for shipment through UPS Internet Shipping, UPS Drop Boxes, or at The UPS Store or any third party retailer.
See the terms and conditions in the UPS Tariff/Terms and Conditions of Service for information regarding firearm shipments.

https://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/prepare/guidelines/firearms.html

blhof · « **Reply #21 on:** March 06, 2008, 05:40:34 PM »

I have purchased 3 handguns from non dealers on Gunbroker, by using my local FFL sending a copy of their FFL to the seller and the copy accompanies the declared pistol bact to the FFL. This has been over the past 3 years and one just this week. My local FFL operates a sporting goods store and I have to pay state sales tax as well as transfer fee. Is this not legal?

Graybeard · « **Reply #22 on:** March 07, 2008, 06:10:41 PM »

Actually no I don't think so.

corbanzo · « **Reply #23 on:** March 07, 2008, 08:05:51 PM »

As for my understanding of the law, after some thought.... A person must physically transfer the firearm to another person. If that transfer is taking place through mail, the person my physically bring it to the FFL to have the transfer done.

So if you are selling or buying a gun, and not actually giving it to, or picking it up from someone who is part of the transfer, it is illegal.

Turk · « **Reply #24 on:** March 15, 2008, 04:57:59 AM »

Go to Gun Broker web site they explain how to ship from individual to a FFL. Shipping out of your state it must go to a FFL to make the transfer to the person purchasing the gun.

Turk