Speaking of cylinder throats...

[AtlLaw]

I've just read a thread by a person who's Ruger's throats appear undersized.

Now I've got a couple of SAA clones.  After a thought provoking thread in the "Handloading" newsgroup I measured the cylinders throats.  As I remember, on one revolver that's at least 30 years old, the throats measured .455.  On the other, newer revolver, the throats measured .453.

I need to slug the bores (to many projects - to little time) as I'm curious to see if the former barrel slugs .454 and the latter .452.  (these numbers sound familiar to anyone?)

But for argument let's say the revolver with the .455 throats slugs out at .451 or .452.  what can be done to tighten up the gap between these two dimensions?   Nothing I can think of.  I'd just have to be sure to fire .454 projectiles through that revolver; and them getting scarce! And don't even think of .456 diameter ones!  And wouldn't they be pretty tight for a .452 barrel?  and they probably wouldn't even chamber in the .453 cylinders!

I wish I had a tight throats on my revolvers!

[Glanceblamm]

Those measurement's are tough for sure (IMO) and I had spend a lot of time agonizing over getting the rectangular shaped dial caliper into a round hole!
What makes it even worse is that the Lands/grooves on the slug that was pounded through the barrel do not line up across the radius of the bullet. I think that some outfit's make a "V" type of a guage where you would get a reading and then do a conversion for the exact diameter but I have no links for you on what this is called or who to order it from.

What I did, and quite by accident, was to try out that barrel slug in the cylinder throats. What I found was that I had a perfect slip fit with little to no resistance but yet had absolutely no wobble when I used a small pick to try to rattle that barrel slug in the cylinder throat. I think that this is what we are after with the bullet having a good slip fit in the cylinder with the cylinder throats being perhaps .001 to .002 larger than the barrel diameter.
This Is Just A Thought And Perhaps Something That You Can Try. It is something that has panned out for me through two revolvers (both Rugers) and I have yet another one to do.

I may not even slug that third one because...
It shoots groups, not patterns.
It does not cause any undue leading.

Hope that this helps some, My method might be unorthodox but my skill in doing machinist type measurements is probably lacking for sure.

[AtlLaw]

Do the clones have an odd number of grooves?  I'll have to check.  But either way I will definitely slug the bore, my curiosity is aroused!  Once I get it slugged and measured I'll try what you did.  As I understand it, it should be a press fit with very little pressure.  As yuo can tell I've never done a lot of serious work with single actions!

All this talk has got me fired up about hunting with one of these revolvers!  I think I'll play with the 5.5 in barrel one with the .453 throats.  If it's barrel slugs out to something like .451 I should think it would have the best accuracy potential.

Then if I can develop a good 250 gr. load moving at about 950 fps +/- that will group acceptably at 25 yards I'll take her hunting this fall.  I should be able to do that with Unique without getting into pressure problems in these revolvers should I not?

'Course that will have to be after I work up loads for the 6 rifles I will use this season.  Got to make meat before I play around!   

[44 Man]

Don't worry about slugging the bore, I'm sure you will find it to be .451 as my Colt was.  They standardized the bore diameter down to .451 many years ago (I believe early '60s) but most of the companys never bothered to change the cylinder throats to .452 until more receintly.  Colt, Ruger and the clones all had this problem.  That's why I am very careful when I pick up an older .45 colt for a 'shooter' as I just prefer to use .452 bullets.  The key to good accuracy is to match the bullets to the throat size.  I'm sure both guns will shoot fine if you feed them .454 bullets.  You may even find the larger one will shoot fine with .452 bullets as long as you push then fast enough with regular loads to obdurate and are not shooting all light 'cowboy' loads.  I had an old engraved Colt clone for a while.  It was a beautiful gun with two cylinders.  The 45 colt cylinder had throats that varied from .457 to .460 and the bore was .451!  The only time that would shoot was to feed it unsized .458 (45-70 diameter) 250 grain. bullets.  The .45 acp cylinder had perfect .452 throats and it shot 200 swc acp's just fine.  I should have had the forsight to ream the .45 acp cylinder to 45 colt but instead sold the gun.  (of course I wish I had it back now)  Try .452 bullets and see how it works and then try .454 bullets.  You will not harm those guns and you may find they are fine shooters with a change of bullets.  44 Man

[Lloyd Smale]

like 44man said. Worse case senerio you will need to shoot 454 bullets in it.

[AtlLaw]

Thanx, I think I'll play around like you suggest!  It's been so long since I fired these revolvers it'll be like the first time again!     You know I went to a gun show today and forgot to look for .45 some-odd diameter cast bullets!  I hate being senile! 

You all healed up there 44?

[jd45]

I think you're right in choosing the .451 bore/ .453 throat gun as having the best accuracy potential. There are plenty of commercial casters still offering .454 bullets, even one offering a .455, (PennBullets). But I think even .452s will shoot well in your choice, tho that's just a guess. It may like the .454s better..........only way to be sure is try em. And a 250 @ 950+/-  will be adequate, and then some, for deer, believe me. That's probably what the old 40gr blackpowder load gave from a 7-1/2" barrel. Should be a REAL THUMPER! BTW, IF you feel the need to do any slugging, I found some soft lead egg-shaped sinkers at Cabelas fishing dept. They're made by an outfit called BulletWeights & the part # is PBEG7. Cheap, too! jd45

[AtlLaw]

<snip> The 45 colt cylinder had throats that varied from .457 to .460 and the bore was .451!  The only time that would shoot was to feed it unsized .458 (45-70 diameter) 250 grain. bullets. <snip>

'scuse me if this sounds like a stupid question, but back in my pistolaro days the only cast ammo I ever shot were wad cutters loaded by our range personnel for annual qualification when we still used revolvers.  Then my eyes got old so I have done less and less handgun shooting.  So, will a .454 bullet of WW hardness or harder swage down to .451 without difficulty?  I should think so from what you and Lloyd said and remembering a friend firing a .308 Win in a .270 Win chamber!  

[jd45]

BTW, if that gun you said has .455 throats, has a .454 groove barrel, you should get good accuracy with .454 or .455 bullets. However, IF the gun has a .451 groove barrel along with the .455 throats, which, being 30 years old, is highly unlikely, it might be best to run softer, rather than harder bullets, say BHN 12, thru it to guard against an over-pressure condition. jd45

[jd45]

AltiLaw, I have a question regarding your saying that a friend fired a .308 Win cartridge in a .270 Win chambered rifle. Being that it was a copper jacketed bullet, (true enough, a presumption) .031" larger than groove diameter of the .270 rifle, which would be .277" was  there any damage to the firearm or the shooter? I'd think there would've been. Just my opinion, jd45

[AtlLaw]

I have heard of the same thing being done by others, but thinking about it gives me the chills.  As far as I know, the Ruger #1 wasn't damaged in any way and my friends only reaction at the shot was that "it didn't feel right."  I would NOT want to see it tried again however.

[jd45]

Well, the fact that it was done in a Ruger makes it most likely that there wasn't a KABOOM, them being as strong as they are. jd45

[44 Man]

Don't worry a bit about the barrel being .451 and cylinder being .454, cast bullets of WW material will swedge down just fine when fired.  I fed that old Jager that had the .458/.460 throats with a .451 barrel .458 WW bullets and there were no pressure signs at all.  Occasionally midway has the original .454 Remington soft lead bullets as componets that they load in the Remington factory ammunition.  Sure, they are that small meplat RNFP, but they are still fun to shoot, and being soft lead, they still hit pretty hard.  I use a lot of them as practice loads with 8.5 gr of Unique at about 850 fps.  44 Man

[AtlLaw]

Thanks!  Good stuff here!  I've got a starting point now.  Now all I need is time!  Turkey season opens next weekend! 

[jd45]

I also thank you, 44 Man, for that good info. I'll just jot that down in my .45 Colt load notes booklet. Good shooting to all! jd45