Lower Velocity Loads for 30-06

[FW Conch]

   I've been reading some threads & talking to some friends who support the logic that a 6.5mm bullet with an SD of around .290 & a MV of around 2450fps is a very lethal white tail deer killer.  I've also seen many deer running 150yds or more after being hit with well placed quality bullets fired @ much higher velocity's.  Where I hunt a deer running that far is unacceptable.  I think we may have gotten too carried away with faster & faster MV.

   I want to apply this logic to my 30-06 by trying lower MV's.  I would like it to work  with the 190gr HDY BTSP which has a SD of .287 .  Hodgedon lists a load of 43.5grs of VARGET getting 2450fps using this bullet.  Hornady lists a load of 47.9grs of IMR4350 getting 2400fps using this bullet.  I like both of these powders in my gun.

   Does anyone have any experience using these lower MV loads or have any opinions on this train of thought ?   I would like to work up some loads for accuracy to try on deer this fall to see if this combination hits as hard as they say. 

      Jim  Thanks

[Luckyducker]

I have lost count of the number of deer I have shot with full power 180 grain loads from a 30/06 loaded with Remington Cor-lokt bullets.  Every one of them was  dead where it hit/fell.  I see no reason to reduce loads with heavy for caliber 30 cal bullets.

[Catfish]

I don`t think that there is anyway that you can be sure a deer will drop where he is with any thing short of a howitzer. I seen a deer run close to 1/2 mile after having the top 1/3 of it`s heart shot off with a 12 ga. slug. I have seen 2 deer go down hard where they stood, and both got up. I go for a double lung shot 95% of the time and they usually go no farther than 75 yrds.

[FW Conch]

   Lucky, I can't fault you on that.  My Fathers hunting rifle was an 1898 30-40Krag shooting 220gr RNSP & the deer he shot never left their own body length, even out to 200yds.  The bullets that were recovered were perfect mushrooms that looked just like the Remington add.
   The last deer I shot was with a 165gr BT (2850fps) @ 110yds,took out the heart & 1 lung, & the deer still ran 54yds.  I choose that bullet because of the "ballistics", but as you say I may be better off going with the "heaver for caliber bullets" & letting the velocity fall where it may.
   I have also considered using 200gr GKBT or 200gr AB's @ what ever velocity they are accurate?   Comments?? Jim

[stimpylu32]

I have always been a fan of BIG & SLOW bullets for most hunting , i feel that a nice size wound cavity will do more than any of the so called super bullets pushed at the speed of light . just my .02 worth .

stimpy

[FW Conch]

   I heard that Catfish!  I like to catch both lungs @ the top of the heart,  taking out the plumbing, & getting a pass through shot. That way they usually bleed out & there is minimal meat damage.   Jim !

[FW Conch]

   Thanks Stimpy!  I'm  feeling better about the 180s, 190s, & 200s all the time !    Jim

[wncchester]

FW, have you ever considered a Marlin 336/.35 Rem.?  With Remington 200 gr. RNs, it has the performance you are seeking.  Works good too.

[FW Conch]

   wn, my BIL has a 35 Whelen, custom, that shoots "one ragged hole".  Large, heavy bullets always interested me. Jim

[30hrrtt]

While I used to used a 30-06 with 150's at around 3000fps, I have really cut back the last two years.  Most of my hits have been at short range and had major damage.  Like the front shoulder almost wasted.  But I would like accurate and fatal hits to 150 yds.  Last year I used a Savage 308 with Hornady 180 round nose and hand loaded to 2400 fps.  I took a nice ten pointer with it hitting it squarely at the neck/shoulder area.  It had a major hole all the way through, at least as big as the faster 150 grainers I used to use but it didn't have all the bloodshot meat.

The year before I took a nice nine pointer with a 32 winchester special with a 170 grain Hornady at about 2200 fps impact velocity.  Hit a rib squarely high up about three ribs back angling down and forward.  It did major damage to the lungs.  It hit a rib squarely in the pit area exiting.  It reentered the front leg where it hit bone and the jacket separated and the rest of the bullet exited.

Both deer dropped on the spot.  I think I will be using slower heavier loads for most of my deer hunting, saving the 30-06 for places where I may be shooting more than 150 to 200 yards.

[FW Conch]

   30, The HDY 180gr RN has an SD of .271 & traveling @ 2400fps your success with that combination falls right in line with what these guys are claiming .
   The proponents of this idea claim there is what they call "hang time" where the bullet spends more time in the animal causing more shock & faster kills.
   I have no way of proving this except to observe the many deer kills by 30-30's & similar rounds & the experiences of hunters willing to share their stories with us .  I have known more than a few hunters who swear they will always use flat nose or round nose bullets because they claim they "hit harder".       Jim

[PartsMan]

A slow moving 30 cal always worked fine out of my 30-30.
I don't see why 30-06 being stamped on the side would change anything.

[30hrrtt]

I use the round nose or flat tipped bullets because they expand more reliably at slower velocities.  At longer ranges I would use the 150 grain partition golds I bought for 4.95 a 50 box.

I wouldn't say the slower heavier bullets kill any faster.  I would say they they kill as fast as the lighter/faster bullets without the wasted meat.

Penetration has never been an issue.  I have killed deer with 30/30, 32 special, 7.5 swiss, 308, and 30-06.  Regardless of the load combo in these calibers, on over 40 deer, I have only recovered one bullet.  After going through the neck and 5 or 6 vertabae, it stopped,  and so did the deer.

[Dand]

slower and heavier bullets are probably ok as long as  you don't drop below the design impact velocity of the bullet. Get too slow and those bullets will knife through the animal with no upset and  you'll see more animals run off.  I don't know what the "ideal velocity" is for the Hornady 190 - contact them.  Notice that several of the respondents here specify they use round or flat point bullets - which are likely to open up better at slow speeds than the sharp pointed or hard / heavy jacketed bullets  designed to perform well with magnum cartridges.  I bet the 190 Hornady is built for high speed and if I were going the big and slow round I'd opt for round nose bullets.  I bet you'll be able to find some really accurate loads that are pleasant to shoot too.

[FW Conch]

   Thanks 30.  I've got some 180gr PSP's, 190gr HDY BTSP's, & some 200gr GKBT's that I'm going to load up, tweak for accuracy, & practice until hunting season.     Good Shooting  Jim

[FW Conch]

   Next time I buy bullets I'll get some RN's to check out as well . Thanks Dand .   Jim

[jhalcott]

  Hornady shows 2 190 grain .30 cal bullets one is a BTHP match and the other is a btsp medium/large game bullet. Best at velocities of 2200 to 3100 FPS. I'd test these for expansion in wet newspaper bundles at the LONGEST ranges I would use them. I had some pointy 200 grain .35 caliber bullets and some 200 grain round nose .35's. I tried the pointy ones in my .358JDJ and got less expansion and longer running deer then I did with the RN's ! The deer usually dropped right there with the RN's but the same hit with the pointed bullets made for long tracking jobs.

[FW Conch]

   I've heard the same story about the RN's from more than a few hunters going back along way . Thanks  jhalcott - Jim