Smokeless in a Cap & Ball

[Rebel-1]

I thought that would get your attention. No i don't use or suggest anyone else use it. In fact i will say right nowDon't use it. But i do have a question about it. They make conversion cylinders that allow the use of smokeless powder in a C&B revolver. Now i know that the brass cartridge case helps contain the pressures, and that they are supposedly made out of a better grade of steel, but just how much extra pressure will the brass case contain? What if a person took a Ruger Old Army and made a brass liner for the chambers that was built just like a cartridge case, inserted it in so that the empty primer hole was in line with the nipple hole and then loaded Unique powder and a bullet. Would it withstand the pressure? Would it still be a hand grenade in the happening? What would happen. I have no plans to do this either since i just ordered an R&D conversion cyl. for my '58 Remmy, but was wondering if it was feasible. What do you think, yes, no, maybe?

[WILD_WEASEL]

I believe there are cap & ball cylinders rated (proofed) for smokeless powder.  I've read a few strings about people in the United Kingdom using them.  I myself have a stainless steel (SS) R&D conversion, in 45 Colt, for my 5 1/2 inch Ruger Old Army (ROA).  It shoots to point of aim at 15 yard using 255gr cowboy loads.

[Rebel-1]

I haven't received my cylinder for my Remmy yet. Was yours a drop in fit?

[Longknife 76]

A brass cartridge does nothing to help contain the pressure, Its the type of steel in the cylinder that contains the pressure. Trying to modify a BP revolver cylinder to shoot smokeless will likely cause it to blow up, then you will only have one hand left to type with!!!!!!!! DON"T DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[WILD_WEASEL]

I had to send the ROA and cylinder back to Taylor’s to have the chambers in the cylinder deepened a bit, according to the gunsmith there.  While there are cheaper ways to go, if you want to shoot 45 Colt the ROA/R&D combo is a lot of fun.  This makes up my 3rd Ruger Convertible; 9mm/38SP/357Mag, 45ACP/45Colt, and now Cap&Ball/45Colt.

[longcaribiner]

Yep, they are made and rated for smokeless, but at very low smokeless pressures.  For a few years, a group of shooters I hung out with tried to come up with the lowest and slowest loads they could.  They had the 45 colt going so slow that you could watch the bullet go down range and it must have dropped two feet in 25 yards.  Almost like throwing the bullet. 

I recently loaded some 44-40 cartridges with  some old very slow burning large case rifle powder just to use up the powder.  At 25 yds the bullets stick in 2x4's and don't go through.    The recoil in my lever gun is so slight that it can barely be felt.  My 12 yr old daughter loves to shoot these loads so much that we loaded another 200 rounds.  We have old farm discs hung as gongs down through the woods.  When she hits one it is more like a clunk than a ringing noise.   In fact when I shoot my ROA with round balls and black powder, the gongs dance and ring like bells., so these loads have really got to be low velocity.  The problem is that any slight mistake with smokeless can blow up the mild steel used in cap and ball revolver cylinders.  Many folks don't realize that because of the speed of powder burn, you can actually get higher bullet velocity with black powder loads and still have just half or a third the pressure of the slower smokeless loads.

[m-g Willy]

Don't think it is just the strength of the cylinder that makes shooting smokeless so dangerous in a cap and ball revolver.
I think the biggest danger would be the nipples and the percussion cap.
With the pressures of smokeless powder the thin percussion cap wouldn't be able to contain the pressure and would let it escape out the nipple into the shooters face.


Willy

[Longknife 76]

I have seen a lot of revolver "cylinder" failure, they always blow out at the side where the cylinder is thinnest and weakest, never seen one blow out of the rear???

[Cowpox]

Longknife 76,
    I don't think m-g Willy was worried about the rear of the cylinder failing, but rather higher pressure ejecting a much larger volume of gasses through the nipple.
    When a friend and I first started using Triple 7 in our cap and ball revolvers, we liked it in our 1851s, 1860s, 1858s, etc. but found out the Dragoons and Walkers can be overloaded with it.  He loaded his Uberti Dragoon full, and I my old ASM Walker. He went first, and after the first shot, turned and remarked that for the first time he had experienced "real" recoil from a cap and ball revolver.
   After the second shot, he stepped back, and started rubbing his face. The escaping gasses had blown the hammer back to half cock, and unlocked the cylinder. Cap fragments had hit him in the face with enough force to draw a little blood in three places. It may have partly been the fault of an erroded touch hole, but we use only genuine black in the big revolvers since this little lesson.
    If the extra pressure of 777 can do that, I don't even want to be around when someone uses smokeless with nipples and caps !!!!

[Longknife 76]

Cowpox, I think your friend was real lucky in just getting some "fragments" in his face, he got off real LUCKY, could have lost an EYE!!!!!!!!!!! I get real annoyed when someone want to load a BLACK POWDER gun with something other than BLACK POWDER!!!!!!!!! If you want to use smokeless GET A SMOKELESS GUN, simple as that!!!

[Cowpox]

I'll drink to that Longknife.  These old hoglegs are fairly mild steel, and I like the flat boom and clouds of smoke from the black stuff anyway. 
    We always use tempered shooting glasses when shooting, so his eyes were fairly safe. It is still possible to have particles to glance off your face and go under the glasses though.